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 Mao News - Off-Season 2011!

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clovera
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:08 pm

alyssa wrote:
Isn't the combo supposed to start with a triple?
Nope. A 2-3 combo is very much a valid jump element that fulfills the jump combination requirement in the SP. The order of the combo doesn't matter as long as one of the jumps is a triple (or quad for the men), and the other is at least a double. It's of course more questionable of a layout choice than a good ol' 3-2 but it isn't illegal to do either. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:16 pm

2-3 combos are valid? Then wouldn't the 2lutz-3loop be a pretty good choice as a point getter for many skaters?
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:58 pm

dangerous_angel_face wrote:
2-3 combos are valid? Then wouldn't the 2lutz-3loop be a pretty good choice as a point getter for many skaters?
It *can* be depending on the skater, but a 3Lz+2T is still worth more by just a tad (0.1 point) and unlike the 3T, you can't exactly tack a 3Lo by force when the landing of the first jump gets iffy. That, and the constant risk of getting a UR/DG call will probably have skaters avoiding it in the first place. Sweatdrop

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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:54 am

clovera wrote:
alyssa wrote:
Isn't the combo supposed to start with a triple?
Nope. A 2-3 combo is very much a valid jump element that fulfills the jump combination requirement in the SP. The order of the combo doesn't matter as long as one of the jumps is a triple (or quad for the men), and the other is at least a double. It's of course more questionable of a layout choice than a good ol' 3-2 but it isn't illegal to do either. Wink

This could be interesting as long as Mao got her 2A-3T and 3A perfected. The problem is, if she missed the 3T, the jump would be invalid, right?

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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:42 am

alyssa wrote:

This could be interesting as long as Mao got her 2A-3T and 3A perfected. The problem is, if she missed the 3T, the jump would be invalid, right?

That's an interesting question, actually. Let's say Mao's jump layout would look like that:
3A - to fulfill the axel requirement
2A-3T - a triple in combination
3F - a triple jump out of steps or connecting elements

Now, let's say, Mao landed the triple axel cleanly and the judges already gave it positive GoEs. But then she skips the triple toe for some reason (shaky take-off, too close to the boards, etc.) and instead lands solo 2A and 3F-2L. The jump layout would technically still be OK:
3A - the triple out of steps, just without steps so it should get -GoE
2A - to fulfill the axel requirement
3F-2L - a triple in combination

It happens often enough that skaters miss the combo in the SP and turn their solo jumps into a combination - since the first jump is already messed up, the loss of GoE for the lack of steps doesn't hurt them much. But in this case it would get confusing, because the 'role' of the 3A would change depending on the rest of the jumping layout. I wonder how such jumping layout would be scored - would the judges go back and mark 3A as flawed jump out of steps, or would they treat 2A as a Zayak violation and gave it 0 points? study
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:37 am

I forget which skater it was, but she botched a jump and technically did not do a jump out of steps, but still received positive GoEs on them. So it should be interesting how they apply GoEs for the women. I lost all hope on the guy's side. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:12 am

I forgot this detail, Okami. I think this layout could be really nice. Dangerous, but we know how Mao loves challenges. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:08 am


While I think Okami's suggestion is interesting, I don't think it's very smart strategically. The 2A-3T combo is one that Mao has struggled even during her technical peak years. In my opinion, she has a better chance just going for a 3-3 combo. I actually don't feel it's riskier than a 3A.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:14 am

It's happened quite often that the "preceding steps" requirement was ignored by the judges.

I can't remember... is it supposed to be an automatic -3 deduction, or just a deduction as the judges see fit?
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:47 pm

chiyori wrote:
It's happened quite often that the "preceding steps" requirement was ignored by the judges.

I can't remember... is it supposed to be an automatic -3 deduction, or just a deduction as the judges see fit?

-3 for no required steps/movements preceding jump, -1 to -2 for a break between required steps/movements & jump/only one step/movement preceding jump. Smile ...That said, as other posters have already mentioned, the judges are often quite lax when it comes to applying the deductions (at least right now, I wouldn't be surprised if ISU cracked down on the missing steps as they did on wrong edges and URs).

aoi88 wrote:
While I think Okami's suggestion is interesting, I don't think it's very smart strategically. The 2A-3T combo is one that Mao has struggled even during her technical peak years. In my opinion, she has a better chance just going for a 3-3 combo. I actually don't feel it's riskier than a 3A.

That wasn't my idea, actually, I just answered the question about possible Zayak violation. Smile Personally I don't think it's the smartest jump layout, considering the fact that its base value is 21.2, while much safer layout consisting of 3A, 3F-2L, 3L is 20.7. Just 0.5 point isn't worth the risk, IMHO, especially considering the fact that 3L is Mao's best jump which can earn high GoEs when she's on.

That said, I think mastering 2A-3T isn't out of Mao's reach. It was becoming better and better last season - the ones she landed in practice sessions at 4CC and Worlds looked completely clean to me. IMHO landing the combo within the program (in the second half and right on the music) is now more the question of stamina than technique, in contrast to Mao's struggles with this combo during the 06-07 season, when she just started to include her newly un-toe-axeled triple toe in her program.

When it comes to 3-3, I think Mao has the comfort of having jumping layouts that can be easilyupgraded to include a 3-3 without the necessity to change her jumping layout. She can just turn her 3F-2L into 3F-3L without violating the Zayak rule, and even if it's UR, it will still have pretty good BV. It's a bit more tricky in the SP, but if Mao felt comfortable enough with her 3F-3L, she could do 3T out of steps instead of 3L. The BV would still be very good (23 points). Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:13 pm

Okami wrote:
chiyori wrote:
It's happened quite often that the "preceding steps" requirement was ignored by the judges.

I can't remember... is it supposed to be an automatic -3 deduction, or just a deduction as the judges see fit?

-3 for no required steps/movements preceding jump, -1 to -2 for a break between required steps/movements & jump/only one step/movement preceding jump. Smile ...That said, as other posters have already mentioned, the judges are often quite lax when it comes to applying the deductions (at least right now, I wouldn't be surprised if ISU cracked down on the missing steps as they did on wrong edges and URs).

And I'm pretty sure this would happen if Mao or anyone else started relying on the fact that this rule is barely applied. As you said, it's possible, but definitely not worth the risk. Plus it could reflect badly on Mao's mastery of all her triple jumps, bringing back the ridiculous argument that she is a one trick pony for mainly doing axels. Seeing as last year's LP had all the triples, I doubt Sato would go for such a strategy.

I can't wait to see the progress on her lutz too. It was really improved last season though still on a shallow inside or flat edge. It would be nice to see a slight improvement again, building up towards 2014 little by little, not rushing into a complete makeover. I'm pretty sure the added speed will make it even more difficult for her to hold a nice outside edge so I'm not holding my breath for a perfect lutz... yet. I'm sure she'll get there.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:12 am

Okami wrote:

That wasn't my idea, actually, I just answered the question about possible Zayak violation. Smile

Sorry! Sweatdrop

Personally, I feel Mao is keeping the 3A in her SP. Because from the clips we've seen of the SP, she went for the 3F-2L and 3L. If she goes for a 2A, I think it may not be enough to compete against skaters like Adelina who are going for the difficult 3-3. Also, she stated that they will stick to one layout for the entire season. So it seems unlikely they will start with a 2A and then upgrade to a 3A later in the season. I feel the changes will most likely take place in the LP. Because Mao has said that she is not sure about putting a 3A in the free. So it's possible that she may try a 3-3 instead or some other combination that will give her comparable points.

Unless, of course, Sato has convinced Mao to take the safe route this season. If that's the case, I will be very surprised because that's unlike Mao! Perhaps, maturity and past experiences have given her a new perspective?
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:14 am

[quote="aoi88"][quote="Okami"]
That wasn't my idea, actually, I just answered the question about possible Zayak violation. Smile [/quote]

Sorry! [img]http://r21.imgfast.net/users/2614/83/63/57/smiles/570713.gif[/img]

Personally, I feel Mao is keeping the 3A in her SP. Because from the clips we've seen of the SP, she went for the 3F-2L and 3L. If she goes for a 2A, I think it [b]may not be enough to compete against skaters like Adelina who are going for the difficult 3-3[/b]. Also, she stated that they will stick to one layout for the entire season. So it seems unlikely they will start with a 2A and then upgrade to a 3A later in the season. I feel the changes will most likely take place in the LP. Because Mao has said that she is not sure about putting a 3A in the free. So it's possible that she may try a 3-3 instead or some other combination that will give her comparable points.

Unless, of course, Sato has convinced Mao to take the safe route this season. If that's the case, I will be [b]very [/b] surprised because that's unlike Mao! Perhaps, maturity and past experiences have given her a new perspective? [/quote]

Don't make me laugh even without the 3A or 3-3 Mao should easily be able to beat adelinas score, just look at when Mao was in very bad condition( worlds 2011) her score is still higher then a clean adelina... and that is because even if adelina get's a little more for her jumps after doing a 3-3, Mao would still be able to make up for it by having done all the other elements (steps, spins & spirals) much better, and of cource Mao's PCS score is also much higher then adelina so nothing to compare there either... so even if Mao goes a bit safe for the sp her score will still be higher... and imagine if Mao puts a 3A or a 3-3 in the sp and executes it, it would make winning a piece of cake!!


by the way does anyone know how i close the quote box, it has been like this for a while now..
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:53 pm

ballerinamao wrote:
Don't make me laugh even without the 3A or 3-3 Mao should easily be able to beat adelinas score, just look at when Mao was in very bad condition( worlds 2011) her score is still higher then a clean adelina... and that is because even if adelina get's a little more for her jumps after doing a 3-3, Mao would still be able to make up for it by having done all the other elements (steps, spins & spirals) much better, and of cource Mao's PCS score is also much higher then adelina so nothing to compare there either... so even if Mao goes a bit safe for the sp her score will still be higher... and imagine if Mao puts a 3A or a 3-3 in the sp and executes it, it would make winning a piece of cake!!
by the way does anyone know how i close the quote box, it has been like this for a while now..

You really can't compare scores across events like that. Generally, the scores at Worlds are higher than the GP series for most skaters. I mean Alena got a higher score than Mao did at Worlds last year. So it's definitely possible that a clean Adelina will win out over Mao with mistakes. Especially since their first match up is in Moscow. And while Mao should have the PCS advantage, I'm not so sure about it because Alena also got higher PCS than Mao. And Adelina is much more loved in Russia now, so who knows.
Also, since Adelina hasn't yet debuted in senior circuit. I suppose you're comparing it to her results from last season, which presents other problems since the scores on junior circuit are different from seniors.

As for the quoting, you have to put them around the entire passage you're quoting. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:52 pm

you know aoi i am still not convinced at all that a clean adelina would be able to win over mao with mistakes, cause then mao would have to have alot of mistakes for that to happen.. cause mao's skating is sublime not only technically (spins,spirals,jumps,steps) and artistically she can make the softest and hardest music work for her so nothing to compare there either... and no matter if the combetition is in moscow the judges still should be fair (or atleast try too) and seriously guys I think you have too much expectations when it comes to those russian baby's.. cause i seriously didn't see anything special when it comes to spins,steps,spirals, præsentation, finesse, elegance, timing, maturity, interpresion, speed.... and the list could go on, i mean the only thing that made those scores possible for them is their jumps, cause 90% of their skating is ORDINARY, and maybe they wll get a few more points more for their jumps in the sp if they skate clean and include a 3-3, but those few points shouldn't mean anything cause mao excells at every other aspects, and stay by what i said cause even if mao makes mistakes she would have to make quite a few to let adelina catch up to her..
but cup of china isn't far from now, so let's just wait and see how she does there!! and if i should be honest i think murakami and carolina should also be able to beat adelina too. cause like i said beside the jumps adelina skating is nothing special (to my eyes atleast) but maybe that will come with more time and experience!!

(do you know what button i have to click on to make it go back to a normal quote box)
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:37 pm

thanks for all the links and updates. with cup of China coming up we'll soon see how big a splash adelina makes on the GP series. My guess is she will win and win big. Comparing the two Liebestraum programs, I think Mao's has a less jarring musical cut and choreography that better fits the music, but as always, *sigh*, it will depend on the jumps.

i hope that we'll get to see mao smile as joyously after her NHK skates as she did in those pottery pictures. And I'm praying her exhibition will be Jupiter AND Chopiniana (the champion gets an encore, right? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:10 am

yeah i really feel the excitement and I can't wait too see mao now can't describe how much i miss seeing her on the ice... and I think when NHK comes i will be glued to my computer and my nerves... i really want to see mao have a strong start from the beginning off the season, and see her happy in the kiss & cry.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:31 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jomD6SWtcCI weider's update
basically she will gain some muscle for skating...hope she can gain some weight to look more healthy
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:35 pm

Thanks shikure as always! Smile Is it possible to understand from this video when the conversation between Sato family and weider team happened? I'm glad he is talking to them directly. He looks so nice and smiling on camera but I really hope he yelled at them a little bit when the camera was off.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:03 pm

shikure wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jomD6SWtcCI weider's update
basically she will gain some muscle for skating...hope she can gain some weight to look more healthy

Lottsa THANKS for this! Thank you!

From my understanding on what they have been discussing during the meeting between Coach Sato couple; and Makino san and Mao's weider team ~ Coach Sato was requesting Makino San to put emphasis on Mao's speed, which is what Sato's main goal for Mao to acquire this season. He was telling the Weider team that Speed is very important for Mao to improve and learn. In order to achieve that - Sato believes Mao couldn't gain more unnecessary weight; or more weight and being fat than usual will not help in her speed. And so Makino understands it and both party agreed that Mao's main traning since the off season is mainly putting more muscles and her stength will mainly come from adding up more muscles instead of gaining more weight..
They've been doing trainings since May this year regarding the acquiring more muscles program for Mao as it was said in the videos and also what shikure has stated above.

I just hope team Sato and Weider team are right on their choices and decisions for Mao. And as long as Mao will not have a chance to acquire injuries; and she is happy and healthy , i support their health decisions for Mao. Yep!


babayaga wrote:
Thanks shikure as always! Smile Is it possible to understand from this video when the conversation between Sato family and weider team happened? I'm glad he is talking to them directly. He looks so nice and smiling on camera but I really hope he yelled at them a little bit when the camera was off.

The conversation or meeting between Sato family and weider team happened this year, month of May. Right after the previous season ended, they had this meeting as shown in the clip. Smile

I love you One thing that really made me glad about this clip, was the earlier statement of Coach Sato for Mao: "He said that he is amaze at Mao's natural strength and power and determination." He also confirmed that Mao's speed has improved alot since they started their training to the present. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:43 pm

Hi again purplemaze, thanks for the tranlation Very Happy and thanks shikure for the video, you are the best Cheering

Mao looks great in the last videos, i hope she stay healthy and happy, i really want to see her smile in every competition and show everybody who Mao Asada is Rockstar

I can't wait anymore!

(purplemaze, i'll send you a pm soon Wink )
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:03 pm

Ken Himura wrote:
Hi again purplemaze, thanks for the tranlation Very Happy and thanks shikure for the video, you are the best Cheering

Mao looks great in the last videos, i hope she stay healthy and happy, i really want to see her smile in every competition and show everybody who Mao Asada is Rockstar

I can't wait anymore!

(purplemaze, i'll send you a pm soon Wink )

Ken Himura, Hi Ken!!! Been awhile since we last talked. Glad to hear from you again. Very Happy

hey NP, no need to thank me Ken, i just shared what i had come to understand about the last Weider Clip above. Smile Much thanks for your kind words though. Really appreciate it.

Hey take your time dear, i was the one who took it sooo long to response from your last pm few months back... so no rush from your part please. i completely understand it. Smile

Yup, still a few more days till we finally see our dear Mao again queen
...So much of the suspense and excitement~ Can't wait any longer too! ~ Happy dance

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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:38 pm

http://www.asahi.com/sports/column/TKY201111080169.html

Um, can I say GORGEOUS PICTURE OF MAO?????? And could somebody please translate this?? Thanks!!
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:02 pm

Thanks so much, purplemaze, for the translation and explanation. Thank you!
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PostSubject: Re: Mao News - Off-Season 2011!   Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:02 am

Thank you shikure and purplemaze Thank you! I'm glad that Makino is back with team Mao. It looks like they get along well.

Oh man, friday can't come soon enough!
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