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 Skate America 2011

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Alokya
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:49 pm

I probably would have given the win to Carolina as well, and I definitely agree that she deserved a higher PCS score than Alissa. It was, however, a very slim margin, so I can accept the result.

However, despite the mistakes, Alissa did really well. She drew me into her program right away. It will be interesting to see what happens later on in the season when she gets her jumps completely down. She has better content and definitely better artistry than Carolina, although I like Carolina's speed a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:17 pm

Alissa doesn't have the speed of Carolina but her skating skills are nice. I heard from ppl seeing her live, she is the lady with silent machine on her blades.
Sometimes watching they live are different from what we see on the screen. since they didn't catch the best moment of the program from time to time.
A good example is Miki's "the mission" program, some ppl don't feel it but if you watch the Japan National Championship version, the camera caught the best facial impression ever and you will love her only because of the smile.

In addition, maybe Alissa programs are not so exciting but that really fit her style very well. Her PCS is going crazy because she has reputation now, especially she won GPS final last year. But PCS will change depends who she compete with...I remembered all the PCS / GOE went to ....during worlds but Alissa deserved more during worlds.
Carolina may get more PCS /GOE when she goes back to Europe.

Just like every year, first GP is always mess. Carolina and Alissa are the only two ladies are ready to compete. If Haurka didn't fall on her 3T(!!!!), she would be on podium. (she said she was surprised too when she fall on her 3T...sigh...all she needed today was 3T and for Kozuka, he needed was his 3Lz landed...)

Carolina's program will grow in this season and all they aim at GPS final. at least, this season will be interesting and let's wait and see.

ETA: can't watch EX ...but saw on FB during EX practice, Alissa hugged Haruka Love Hearts I think Haruka became Alissa's younger sister in DSC Smile


Last edited by shikure on Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:48 pm

On the positive note - I am very impressed with both Carolina's programs, I didn't expect that. Alyssa is gorgeous, yes, but her programs are predictable and safe. Carolina for me put herself on another level with these two performances. And both are Lori's work, so there is hope she can come up with something similarly beautiful and interesting for Mao, if Mao chooses to keep her as a choreographer.
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:15 pm

shikure wrote:
In addition, maybe Alissa programs are not so exciting but that really fit her style very well. Her PCS is going crazy because she has reputation now, especially she won GPS final last year. But PCS will change depends who she compete with...I remembered all the PCS / GOE went to ....during worlds but Alissa deserved more during worlds.

I agree that Alissa's programs are very well suited to her style and I actually enjoyed her FS more here than at JO so it's not all bad for me. I just wish she would step out of the box, even just a little. Somewhere else, someone posted that her SP could have been skated to Moon River (her Ex) and no one would have noticed. I kinda agree. It's pretty, plays to her strengths and is well executed, but I still feel this would have been the perfect season for her to try something new.

I really hope Carolina feels fit enough to add lutzes into her programs again soon. They're beautiful jumps for her when she lands them. Or at least that she upgrades to 2 flips. Even with her current layout, she could still up her game a little by tacking a 3T after the 2A in the second half or, if the landing is not secure enough, she has another 3T-2T pass right after that could be 3T-3T. The 2 jumping passes being so close, she has little chances of getting confused and pulling a Oda. And late in the program like that, either would get her a lot of points. I wonder if she was planning this already but did not feel comfortable enough on either jumping pass.

Overall, not a lot of skaters were truly ready for SA, as tends to be the case evey year. I feel horrible for Florient. Not a fan of his choices this year, but that was a terrible outing. I hope he doesn't let it get to him and skates better next time!

And I was crushed for Haruka. I was really rooting for her but she looked a bit weak out there. That program has potential though. CaroZ made a nice, promising comeback in the SP and it made me ridiculously happy. Not really a fan but I've got this thing for underdogs... I was crushed when I saw her face in the FS though... She looked ready to burst into tears when she got up from that last fall. Go Caroline! It's a difficult road, but you already came so far!!

Btw, does CaroZ have to do regionals and sectionals or does she have a bye to Nationals?
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:54 pm

Alissa acknowledged that she didn't change her style because she wanted to up her technical content - and to do that, she thought it would be best to stick with what she is used to. However, she said that she is up for trying something new in the future when she has her triple-triples and triple salchow better under control. Personally, I think she is smart in that sense - taking one thing at a time rather than trying to do everything at once. She knows her limits.
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:52 pm

purplemaze wrote:
Wow, that's truly awesome! Have lots of FUN at the rink! Smile ☆~☆~☆~☆ The Ladies free is on now live over at pay channel, hikari tv; channel 556, started around 6:40 am JST so i woke up a little early again today just to watch it Wink Lots of pink dresses among the Ladies in the first group. Elene G. of Georgia bounced back from her rough short yesterday to a satisfying free today and currently on lead next now to Ksenia M. Second group is coming, good luck ladies esp. HARUKA IMAI cheers Cheering 頑張ってはるかちゃん!\(^o^)/ Like a Star @ heaven ETA : too bad for CaroZ Sad (fell thrice and scored 140. 70 total score) . Haruka had some problems on her jump landings, her My fair lady jazz program earned fairly high on the artistic and presentation aspect, but her technical scores are slim. The thing I was worried about the 4 minute free, considering she was injured just this summer and stamina will be vital at free. Though I'm still proud of you HARUKA for pushing yourself and competing.

Thank you! I had so much fun. Smile

Okay, so I have to take a plane back to Chicago in a couple of hours, but it was so worth it. I got Taka, Alissa, Carolina, Joelle, and Mary Beth & Rockne's autographs and a picture with Sean Rabbitt cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:55 pm

I found alissas programms too be sooo boring and her movement so slow, the only times she moved fast was when she did her spins...
1 minute after alisssa finished her skate, I already forgot what she delievered on the ice... which is why i was even more shocked when i found out that she actually won..

and I have to admit one thing, this style may suit alissa but i totally hate it.. it's too pink and princess suite for me. and I hate her look at the kiss and cry I really do hate it, since she makes herself look like a victim and always looks unsaticefied even when she get's much more then what she deserved.. ohh and one more thing she really looked like she was acting all innocent I mean the only thing she lacked was the angel robe and the golden thing on her head... and I know some off you might think this is a bit overdone, but you know I have watched her the last two seasons and at every competition my first impression just gets reasurred every time i see her skate and particulary when i see her in the kiss and cry...eww

I still can't believe the most forgetable program was the one that actually won UNBELIEVABLE... well this is what I call home advantange... right now I really just want to watch the next gp competition and forget this one as soon as possible...

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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:03 am

maowataiyo wrote:
purplemaze wrote:
Wow, that's truly awesome! Have lots of FUN at the rink! Smile ☆~☆~☆~☆ The Ladies free is on now live over at pay channel, hikari tv; channel 556, started around 6:40 am JST so i woke up a little early again today just to watch it Wink Lots of pink dresses among the Ladies in the first group. Elene G. of Georgia bounced back from her rough short yesterday to a satisfying free today and currently on lead next now to Ksenia M. Second group is coming, good luck ladies esp. HARUKA IMAI cheers Cheering 頑張ってはるかちゃん!\(^o^)/ Like a Star @ heaven ETA : too bad for CaroZ Sad (fell thrice and scored 140. 70 total score) . Haruka had some problems on her jump landings, her My fair lady jazz program earned fairly high on the artistic and presentation aspect, but her technical scores are slim. The thing I was worried about the 4 minute free, considering she was injured just this summer and stamina will be vital at free. Though I'm still proud of you HARUKA for pushing yourself and competing.

Thank you! I had so much fun. Smile

Okay, so I have to take a plane back to Chicago in a couple of hours, but it was so worth it. I got Taka, Alissa, Carolina, Joelle, and Mary Beth & Rockne's autographs and a picture with Sean Rabbitt cheers

AWWWWWWWWWWWWW~ pls share with us when you get back to Chicago~can't wait to hear anything from you Smile
Just read twitter and saw lots of ppl said Taka deserved encore and they like his "cello song" ex a lot ~I am totally not focus on my work today Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:26 am

maowataiyo wrote:
Okay, so I have to take a plane back to Chicago in a couple of hours, but it was so worth it. I got Taka, Alissa, Carolina, Joelle, and Mary Beth & Rockne's autographs and a picture with Sean Rabbitt cheers
Thumbs up!

Glad you had fun, and have a stay trip back! Yep!

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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:02 am

I am surprised to see Carolina skating so well, so early in the season again. I hope I don't jinx her but her skating is always like a breath of fresh air to me. When Mao is under-performing, she is the reason why I still watch ladies competition. Alissa is nowhere near Carolina's level and if this competition would have happened anywhere else than USA Caro would be the rightful winner. I don't understand why people say that Alissa had a harder content. Alissa PLANNED a harder content. In the actual competition, she landed 3Lz-3T<<, 3F<<(fall), 3L(wonky landing), 3Lz<, 2S, 3L-2T(negative GOE), 2A-2T-2T(the only jumping pass with a pozitive GOE).
This was a very strange competition overall. The only positive things for me where S/S long program(this will be a masterpiece) and Carolina's 2 beautiful programs.(and Haruka Imai's SP, I really wanted a medal for her!)
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:09 am

This is the first time in a very longtime (like 2004) that I feel that Carolina is underscore.

Her skating is really pure gem and she has got everything that COP ask for. In my opinion her PCS should be at least 2 -4 points higher than Crizny whose program and performance is nice and flowery but not as sophisticate as Carolina. (Also, Kostner should won short program)

Anyway, this is skate America; therefore it normal for Alissa to get a bit of home inflation.

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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:53 am

i really liked Carolina, the music ,her skating the dress(OMG live her dress). I´m happy she´s back.

i so unfair that judges can inflate score depending on where is the event taking place, SO UNFAIR.
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:20 am

maowataiyo wrote:
purplemaze wrote:
Wow, that's truly awesome! Have lots of FUN at the rink! Smile ☆~☆~☆~☆ The Ladies free is on now live over at pay channel, hikari tv; channel 556, started around 6:40 am JST so i woke up a little early again today just to watch it Wink Lots of pink dresses among the Ladies in the first group. Elene G. of Georgia bounced back from her rough short yesterday to a satisfying free today and currently on lead next now to Ksenia M. Second group is coming, good luck ladies esp. HARUKA IMAI cheers Cheering 頑張ってはるかちゃん!\(^o^)/ Like a Star @ heaven ETA : too bad for CaroZ Sad (fell thrice and scored 140. 70 total score) . Haruka had some problems on her jump landings, her My fair lady jazz program earned fairly high on the artistic and presentation aspect, but her technical scores are slim. The thing I was worried about the 4 minute free, considering she was injured just this summer and stamina will be vital at free. Though I'm still proud of you HARUKA for pushing yourself and competing.

Thank you! I had so much fun. Smile

Okay, so I have to take a plane back to Chicago in a couple of hours, but it was so worth it. I got Taka, Alissa, Carolina, Joelle, and Mary Beth & Rockne's autographs and a picture with Sean Rabbitt cheers
you're much welcome! It's wonderful knowing you had so much fun watching the competition, and you really sounded like it, i am thrilled for you too! Smile I haven't gone watching competitions or even any live ice shows since GPF 2009, and the recent multiple tragedies that struck Japan have made it impossible for me too to watch the last Worlds. So I am truly happy for you, that you were able to do so. I would be the happiest woman alive if only I get to see Kozuka and have his Autograph. (^з^)-☆ May you have a smooth trip back to Chicago and will look forward to your great, fun stories from Skate America when you return, maowataiyo. :-)

Now about SA, my hunger for skating and watching my favourite skaters compete made me very excited to follow and watch SA this time, from Pairs; Dance; to Singles. But much to my chagrin, it wasn't quite like the competition that I've expected and hoped for. However I am pleased seeing lottsa new, lovely programs e.g. Kozuka's Sp and Free; Haruka's Sp and even her LP too; CaroZ's SP; CaroK' s both pros; and yes, I also loved Alissa's 'Lavie Rose' SP ; and Davis & White's Long to name a few. Cup of China is next, I think. Hopefully things will be a bit different by then. . . (-。-)y-~

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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:17 am

Actually for me Alissa deserved to win or at least I'm okay with the results because like clovera said if Carolina had only a Level 2 in her last spins she would have won... I think Caros programs this season are better than her others but I just don't like her skating. And when you see Alissa live you can notice that she has great skating skills also without the speed that Caro has. So that's just my opinion but for me Alissa also deserved her PCS... Smile

But nobody here is talking about the pairs...?! Suspect Am I the only one who just loved Savchenko/Szolkowys FS? It's a really fantastic tribute to Pina Bausch who was just soo great (I'm so happy I could see her and one of her plays 3 years ago).
So watch it and be impressed Too sweet!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhrNnwvFDI
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:23 am

GALA was uploaded
Taka's http://youtu.be/Maes4l7GuBE always amazing~ you can see ppl twitter about it
Haruka's http://youtu.be/mNaV8CcFtVY lovely Love Hearts

you can find others in the same account~thanks the owner Smile

Taka's eurosport version SP http://youtu.be/BqGEwXs3Byw FS http://youtu.be/3SteSVluSHE
Haruka's FS http://youtu.be/PHi2rWadtX8
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:30 am

josling wrote:


But nobody here is talking about the pairs...?! Suspect Am I the only one who just loved Savchenko/Szolkowys FS? It's a really fantastic tribute to Pina Bausch who was just soo great (I'm so happy I could see her and one of her plays 3 years ago).
So watch it and be impressed Too sweet!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhrNnwvFDI
I'm almost died when SS finished their LP. This is the best program I've ever seen!!! Looooove it!!!!!!! Love
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:42 am

josling wrote:
Actually for me Alissa deserved to win or at least I'm okay with the results because like clovera said if Carolina had only a Level 2 in her last spins she would have won... I think Caros programs this season are better than her others but I just don't like her skating. And when you see Alissa live you can notice that she has great skating skills also without the speed that Caro has. So that's just my opinion but for me Alissa also deserved her PCS... Smile

But nobody here is talking about the pairs...?! Suspect Am I the only one who just loved Savchenko/Szolkowys FS? It's a really fantastic tribute to Pina Bausch who was just soo great (I'm so happy I could see her and one of her plays 3 years ago).
So watch it and be impressed Too sweet!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhrNnwvFDI

Nobody's saying Alissa has bad skating skills by any means. She has a nice deep, lovely edges. But Kostner also has nice deep edges too ALONG with greater speed/power. Which I think suggests Kostner getting the higher SS mark, especially when Alissa skates tenatively and Kostner skates with power and attack.

Many feel Kostner skates the fastest of all the ladies including Kim. In many case I find Kostner out of control and feel that I'd hand SS for example to Yu-na because Yu-na shows more control of her speed. Felt the same at times in the short at Skate America.

But in this particular incident Kostner was in complete control and didn't let her speed run away from that. When Kostner skates like that her SS deserve to be through the roof. To not give that to kostner, is to not give Czisny credit for her spins.
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:29 pm


I am not a big fan of either Kostner or Czisny. But I really can't feel too bad for Kostner this time considering how generously scored she is on many occasions. IMO. It can't always work in her favor, even if she may have deserved it. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:41 pm

aoi88 wrote:

I am not a big fan of either Kostner or Czisny. But I really can't feel too bad for Kostner this time considering how generously scored she is on many occasions. IMO. It can't always work in her favor, even if she may have deserved it. Wink

I see that and a part of me thinks maybe its good for her that people are feeling she's getting underappreciated instead of gifted.

BUT, I don't think two wrongs make a right. And I really think in this case the SS mark especially is really questionable. This sport is so inconsistently judged its ridiculous. So for me its kind of the principal and not the skater.
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:46 pm

bekalc wrote:
aoi88 wrote:

I am not a big fan of either Kostner or Czisny. But I really can't feel too bad for Kostner this time considering how generously scored she is on many occasions. IMO. It can't always work in her favor, even if she may have deserved it. Wink

I see that and a part of me thinks maybe its good for her that people are feeling she's getting underappreciated instead of gifted.

BUT, I don't think two wrongs make a right. And I really think in this case the SS mark especially is really questionable. This sport is so inconsistently judged its ridiculous. So for me its kind of the principal and not the skater.
Great point, I always try to behave the same way. Even if Patrick would be underscored I should be disappointed. Well, as I said many times before , I saw both Alyssa and Carolina live. And Alyssa is nowhere near Carolina's level, in edges, ice coverage and quality of the jumps. I can hardly find a clean jump from Alyssa. Yes, she is lovely, she has great spins, that all. She won here only because it was Skate America.
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:31 pm


But then judging in skating has ALWAYS been subjective. I do agree that Alyssa's scores are a big high at this competition but it isn't at ridiculous levels. Also, yes Carolina has more attack and speed but I don't agree that Alyssa skated tentatively here. In fact, I feel she skated with more freedom and ease than I think I've seen from her in a while. In close cases like these, it all comes down to personal preference since these two have very different skating styles. As a Mao fan, I really can't bring myself to criticize Alyssa for not having enough speed and ice coverage because I don't think these two qualities (although important) necessarily determine everything. Like Mao, Alyssa has other qualities that make her stand out.
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:09 pm

aoi88 wrote:

But then judging in skating has ALWAYS been subjective. I do agree that Alyssa's scores are a big high at this competition but it isn't at ridiculous levels. Also, yes Carolina has more attack and speed but I don't agree that Alyssa skated tentatively here. In fact, I feel she skated with more freedom and ease than I think I've seen from her in a while. In close cases like these, it all comes down to personal preference since these two have very different skating styles. As a Mao fan, I really can't bring myself to criticize Alyssa for not having enough speed and ice coverage because I don't think these two qualities (although important) necessarily determine everything. Like Mao, Alyssa has other qualities that make her stand out.


Alissa, when she is on(like she was, let's say at last year's GPF) she is a beautiful skater. I had no problem last year on the GPF when Alissa beat Carolina(it was a close call, Carolina was very good then) because it was as you said, a matter of personal preferences. But yesterday Alissa looked like "I'm scared, I don't want to be here". She admitted she saw Caro's scores and that made her nervous. It's tough skating last and it showed. She was nowhere near her usual standard. I am also a Mao fan, she is my favorite lady skater but that does not mean she deserves to win when she is off. Take for instance her performance from 2011 4CC and 2011 worlds LP. The first one deserves all the medals in the world, the second one does not. Just because she CAN be brilliant does not mean she has to be reworded for that even though on a particular competition she is way off(that never happened in Mao's case though).
On this competition it was not even a close call. Carolina was the class of the field because she skated relaxed, calm and serene and interpreted the music beautifully while Alissa failed to do that. If both were clean, that would be a close call in terms of PCS.
(remember when we Mao fans got upset when Yuna won 2010 worlds LP with a fall and some other mistakes while Mao was clean? It's the same case here, the only difference is that Mao won the title there while here, Carolina didn't)
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:33 pm

Actually, I don't think this scenario is similar to 2010 Worlds. I think a lot of us were upset with 2010 Worlds because Yuna won the FS. But Carolina actually won the FS here. She just didn't get the highest PCS, which happens quite a lot in this sport. I think there's a good argument for Carolina having more PCS but the margin is still within reasonable territory. Now, if Alissa had won the freeskate, then it would have become ridiculous.
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:10 pm

aoi88 wrote:
Actually, I don't think this scenario is similar to 2010 Worlds. I think a lot of us were upset with 2010 Worlds because Yuna won the FS. But Carolina actually won the FS here. She just didn't get the highest PCS, which happens quite a lot in this sport. I think there's a good argument for Carolina having more PCS but the margin is still within reasonable territory. Now, if Alissa had won the freeskate, then it would have become ridiculous.

I don't see what winning the free skate has to do with it. If Alissa had gotten credit for one/two of those jumps she would have won the free skate. To be frank I could have lived with Alissa winning overall if it had been due to higher base value.

But Alissa getting higher PCS than Kostner based on the skates both put out that night was absolutely ridiculous. But its where Alissa got higher PCS that truly get me. Kostner barely topped her in P/E. And Alissa topped her in Skating skills mark.

As people who have said live, Kostner skates with more speed, flow than Alissa and was fully on that night. Both have their strength/weaknesess but when one is on and the other isn't, shouldn't that matter a bit.

One can't even argue for more sureness/or better footwork/better knees like one can argue with Mao vs Yu-na. Because if you look at both girls footwork, Kostner is far better.

As someone who has openly preferred Yu-na at times though love Mao and I facilate, I was very upset with Kim taking PCS over Asada at Worlds in 2010. in every category. I preferred Kim's programs, and I think speed and power maters. But never thought lackluster Yu-na should out score Asada on Pcs. And neither should lackluster Alissa out score "on" Kostner.

There got to be a point where the actual skate MATTERS.

And the thing is I didn't have issue with Alissa getting higher PCS in the short because Kostner had stumbles/hickups. Its not necessarily about who I personally prefer but as the principal of the matter of this sport being judged correctly.
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Join date : 2009-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:37 pm


I have a question. Why do all the skaters appear so fast in the videos? Is it due to the video format? because I'm sure some of the skaters aren't this fast live.
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PostSubject: Re: Skate America 2011   Today at 7:14 pm

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Skate America 2011
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