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 Mao's Coaches

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Who has been Mao's best coach so far?
Machiko Yamada
7%
 7% [ 2 ]
Tatiana Tarasova
7%
 7% [ 2 ]
Nobuo Sato
67%
 67% [ 20 ]
Someone else.....
19%
 19% [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 30
 

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PostSubject: Mao's Coaches   Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:30 pm

Who has been Mao's best coach so far???

I, personally think that Machiko Yamada, Mao's first real coach, was the best. She is the person who turned her into a star, and taught Mao how to do her famous triple axel.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:03 pm

I like Sato sensi because he has gut to correct Mao's jump and bad habit. The best thing is that he accept the fact the media attacks him. The best part is that he always smile to the media and protects Mao without complaining about anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:30 pm

You forgot Rafael Arutunian...
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:27 am

well for me it's a tough one between rafael arutunian and sato.. but the reason why I at the end chose to vote for sato, is that he compered to all the other coaches didn't ignore mao's issue with certain jumps and instead faced them and made her bring them back, since the only thing she needed was a little more time and focus on certain jumps, and knew that the advantage mao would when she brought them back would be worth all the hard work and even if it meant sacrificing a season...and i respect him and Mao for taking that decision and daring to do that...
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:53 am

I also vote for Sato. Since he took Mao at her hard time, it's easy to take someone in her peak or developing, but Mao was in such a hard time and there were lots of work to do. He is so brave to take her and help her. Sato said if he didn't take Mao, there is no one else will do. that in the Japan. I think most of Japanese top coaches have their own "precious" student now, and Yukari just retired so there was the room for Mao.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:46 am

Rafael, for sure. I would never say Machiko only because it was she who taught Mao wrong technique.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:58 pm

polosatik wrote:
Rafael, for sure. I would never say Machiko only because it was she who taught Mao wrong technique.

Agree~ and now I am very worry about Kanako. Machiko is nice person but when talking about technique, Sato and Nagakubo are better.
At least, their students don't have so many issues and Miki was so lucky that she trained with Sato / kozuka team after leaving Machiko.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:30 pm

I don't like this poll. geek

Yuko Monna was who Mao formally began training under, and alongside Miki who was in the same club during that time (in addition to Tara Lipinski's Nagano Olympics performance) what gave Mao her affinity for the loop jump. Machiko was of course, what made Mao's 3A happen - there's a reason why more than half of all the ladies who landed a 3A in competition have been her pupils, in addition to helping Mao stay level-headed when the media was clamoring after Mao the child prodigy. Rafael was there for Mao during her [inital] growth spurt, and rescued the toeloop. Tat was crucial in "cleaning up" her positions and carriage, particularly on the spins like the compact donut. The Satos have made Mao's skating flow, and overseeing Mao as she corrected her jump technique.

While I understand people have a problem with Machiko from a technical standpoint, the days spent at the Grand Prix Tokai Club are quite certainly what nurtured Mao's willingness to learn and love for practicing, which are just as important for an elite skater. The latter is something the Satos (and Nagakubo) struggled with frequently with their top students both past and present, so Mao training under Machiko first and then have the Satos now as part of her current team is something I find quite remarkable.

Mao has had her highs and lows with every coach she had so far, and they have all added something magical that made Mao who she is today as a skater (that, and my general dislike for finger-wagging at coaches period, barring extreme circumstances). I wish it was was multiple choice so I could vote for all of them, to be honest. I love you

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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:32 pm

Aaww! Why can't we "like" posts anymore?

Clovera, pretty much everything you said... cheers Many Hearts
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:25 pm


I think I'll vote for Rafael, whom I think should be listed in the poll. I feel he is really good at maximazing the strengths of a skater. Machiko gave Mao a lot of nice qualities but she does tend to overlook certain technique flaws. And it's the same for several of her students, not just Mao. There were too many complications in TAT's arrangment with Mao to give a fair analysis of her as a coach. And it's too early to tell for Sato.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:39 pm

I vote for Tatiana. I know many people don't think she was right fit for Mao. But i think she made Mao stronger and bring out different side of Mao. Many people in Europe appreciate Tatiana's style.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:13 am

I voted for Sato just because I like the dynamic of Nobuo-san, Kumiko and Taka-chan being there for Mao. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:42 pm

[quote="Rose"]I vote for Tatiana. I know many people don't think she was right fit for Mao. But i think she made Mao stronger and bring out different side of Mao. Many people in Europe appreciate Tatiana's style. [/quote]

WELL i LOVED TAT AS A CHOREOGRAPHER, most of mao's programms that were choreograhed by tat are my favourite to date.. but as a coach I think she really failed just look at the kiss and cry at all mao's big competition and you would notice that Mao was siting alone ad also most off the events were Mao won including Nationals, GPF, 4CC, Worlds... and that clearly demonstrated how little time she spent with mao, cause mao was most off the time just training alone, and that really isn't what a great coach would be doing.. tat has made some original & uniq choreography for mao, and therefor she will remain a person i really respect but there is no doubt that as a coach she failed, cause she was never much off a coach for mao, i would think it's more appropriate to call her a part time coach if anything... Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:52 pm

I also voted for Raphael. I agree with you ballerinamao about TAT failing as Mao's coach. I think that training alone really hurt Mao. Mao should have either moved to Russia or find someone else as her coach. (my opinion).
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:34 am

polosatik wrote:
Rafael, for sure. I would never say Machiko only because it was she who taught Mao wrong technique.

Ditto. I've always thought Rafael was Mao's best coach, even though the relationship didn't end that amicably. I also like Sato, but it's still too early to judge, IMO. TAT is a great choreographer, maybe not the best coach, but I still wouldn't say she or Machiko are the worst. Mao had great moments with all of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:37 am

Cloviece wrote:
polosatik wrote:
Rafael, for sure. I would never say Machiko only because it was she who taught Mao wrong technique.

Ditto. I've always thought Rafael was Mao's best coach, even though the relationship didn't end that amicably. I also like Sato, but it's still too early to judge, IMO. TAT is a great choreographer, maybe not the best coach, but I still wouldn't say she or Machiko are the worst. Mao had great moments with all of them.

Agree. He has proven nothing yet to be called her best coach, although I do hope he will be in three years. I read some articles on Taka and it seems Yuka Sato is a good mentor for skaters.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:03 am

Rafael was good for her but he got to train Mao at her peak form, when she could land everything thanks to her quick rotations and small stature. Watch her jumps by then and you will see the ice coverage and the height of the jumps is not that good, and the judges often gave her -GOE and "<".Under him she performed the most difficult program ever, with one 3A and two 3-3 combos, but he did nothing for her technique. Had he started to work with her on the 3Lz the moment she started getting the edge call, who knows...
I feel people are being too harsh with Tatiana. Mao's body changed a lot from 2008 to 2009, and it was obvious Mao's rotations on the jumps got slower and after 2009 she was unable to land a ratified 3-3 combo.Tatiana was capable to correct Mao's 3Lz, but if I recall correctly, that's when her 3F problem started. Tatiana tried to correct Mao's jumps and introduced the 3S again, which were good things, but she had her own problems and was not able to fully commit to Mao. As a choreographer she has her issues, but as a coach she is good.
Any other skater, with that bad technique would have probably end up like Caroline Zhang. Just compare her 2008 3A from 4 Continents(one of the best) and her 2010 Olympics 3A/2011 4 continents. You can see she rotates slower now, but she jumps higher so she manages to land the jump correctly. Imagine the work she had to do just to keep this jump, it's unbelievable. Nabuko was right to make Mao starting with the jumps from scratch because they were more or less a mess in 2010, except those 3A(no 3Lz, no 3S, hammer-toe on the 3F. The fact that she was able to win a silver medal at Olys and a gold medal at worlds under these circumstances show us once again how dedicated Mao is)
Nobu Sato is a great coach, but not a miracle worker(more likely Mao is a miracle herself), he tries his best and he had some amount of success with Mao this far. He got her on the right track for nationals, 4CC and she was on peak form at worlds, but we all know what happened and no one can be blamed for that. I would say he is the best choice for Mao now, but we all need to be patient. Sooner or later she will be a world champion once more, I'm sure about it
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:26 pm


I disagree that Rafael did nothing for her technique. He didn't change anything drastic but he definitely helped to increase their quality. If you compare her jumps before 2006 and her jumps during 2007-2008, there's a big difference. Mao had quicker rotations when she was a junior but her jumps were much stronger under Rafael. Her 3-3 were always inconsistent but she was able to obtain pretty good GOE's for the ones she did land successfully. Most importantly, she had the best ice coverage/speed and power while being coached by him. (Though I think this had more to do with Weider than her later coaches. silent ). And while Mao did go through a growth spurt between 2008 and 2010, it wasn't as drastic as the one she underwent from 2005 to 2007. I agree that Mao would have struggled with her jumps either way, but I'd argue that had she stayed with Rafael, she wouldn't have struggled as much as she did. I think Mao's biggest mistake was to think she'd do okay with a part-time coach relationship and basically train by herself most of the time. This was probably the main reason that led to the decrease in quality of her basics and increase of her jump issues.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:58 pm

I take that back, that Rafael did nothing for her technique, as he fixed her 3T(and made her do it in combination, either 2A-3T in 2007 or 3F-3T in 2008) and from then on it's a consistent jump for her. I do like the fact that he challenged her to put her 3F-3L in the later half of the program, but I still think he was a bit lucky to train Mao at her best technically and people tend to forget that Mao's 3A and 3F-3L combination were already pretty consistent when she went to him.
As far as I understand it's hard to correct and edge issue and Tarasova almost did it(Mao got credit for 2 clean 3Lz in 2008-2009 season). I will never understand why Mao and her coach decided to give it up, she was very close!
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:34 am

it's hard to choose mao's best coach, because we don't know how her trainings have looked like in the past (of course we can judge coaches basing on Mao's results, but there are many factors which have impact them), but I agree with ballerinamao about Tat:

ballerinamao wrote:

WELL i LOVED TAT AS A CHOREOGRAPHER, most of mao's programms that were choreograhed by tat are my favourite to date.. but as a coach I think she really failed just look at the kiss and cry at all mao's big competition and you would notice that Mao was siting alone ad also most off the events were Mao won including Nationals, GPF, 4CC, Worlds... and that clearly demonstrated how little time she spent with mao, cause mao was most off the time just training alone, and that really isn't what a great coach would be doing
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:51 am

Lady_in_black wrote:
As far as I understand it's hard to correct and edge issue and Tarasova almost did it(Mao got credit for 2 clean 3Lz in 2008-2009 season). I will never understand why Mao and her coach decided to give it up, she was very close!

I seem to recall Mao saying that she could not focus on the opening combination and therefore almost always messed it up because she was so scared of the following 3Lz.

As for Rafael, I think Mao might have had less technical issues with all of her jumps if she had stayed with him. She might have had problems on the lutz (but Mao wanted to fix it so I guess he would have given in and helped her). However, she would not be the skater we know today, interpretation-wise. Despite some of her faults, I love what Tat brought Mao in interpretation. It might not have always been popular with the general public, but there is no way Mao could have skated with such fire under Rafael. Remember Bells at the Olys? Mao was pratically melting the ice...

You can't compare the jumps Mao landed before and during Rafael... the growth spurt she went through while working with him messed up a lot of things, including her speed, her edges and, later on, her 3-3 (see beginning of 2007-08 season), but I personnally credit him as the one who allowed Mao to keep her 3A through it, for better or for worse. Yes, he could have focused on the lutz and on the salchow, but then again, we all know what happened when Tat and Mao tried to tackle everything at once... She almost lost her flip in the balance and had to focus almost solely on that and the 3A heading into the Olympics, lest she have very little left in her jump arsenal. Rafael focused on Mao's 3A, and on her combinations (he made her land 2A-3T, 3F-3T and 3Lz-2L-2L), and he made it count.

Mao is who she is today thanks to all of her coaches. If not for Mao's very first coaches and Machiko Yamada, there might have been no Mao, because they made her love skating, training and competing. If not for Rafael, I think there would be no more 3A for Mao or that if she still had it, her technique might be very wonky. If not for Tat, Mao might still be focused on the jumps and her spin positions, her spirals and her steps would not be so gorgeous. Sato is still pretty new, but obviously, without him, we would not see the light, fast, gorgeous Mao we saw at The Ice this summer. Let's see how this translate to competition.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:01 pm

This is a tough one. It's really hard for me to judge on Yamada, since I don't really know anything about when she was coaching Mao, cause that was almost all before she was a senior and before I had ever heard of her. I think the lady deserves major credit though for being Mao's coach in all those early years, and really molding her as the skater she is today.

I think Raphael at least should go on the poll, but I don't think I would vote for him. Mao did some of her best skating yet with him, but on the other hand, there is the whole lutz thing.

Then there's Tat. I don't know if it's fair to say it's Tat's fault that the two years she was with Mao were Mao's slump. I'm sure it's not ALL her fault. But you can't completely dismiss it either. Yes, Mao did improve in some areas with Tat, but I think if she had been with Sato all this time, Mao would probably be in an even better position right now. One can only wonder what might have been...

So I voted for Sato. Mao is a work in progress with him right now - but I do see progress. I think Mao is going to achieve everything she wants to achieve for the rest of her career with Sato. Perhaps not medal wise, cause you never know what's going to happen there, but as far as being happy with her skating, yes.

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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:00 pm

I think Sato is a perfect fit for Mao, IMO. He is good on basics, he is patient and he just seems to know what pace it needs to take to develop Mao. And he seems to have such an aura of a person who is mentally strong, and I think he helped Mao in that department. He is a priced skater himself, so he knew the pressures to be had of a skater who excels and wins medals and the stressful expectations that come with that. Also, with Sato, Mao's coaching experience is more stable because he is Japanese, and they can easily communicate without language barriers, both verbal and non-verbal.

Also, I know I should also credit Mao for her development, but I feel we should also give credit to Sato for helping shape Mao's POV in terms of competitive skating. Now, she's relaxed and seems to get out of her shell more. She is more expressive and less uptight. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:23 pm

Yeah, but Machiko was like a grandmother to Mao, just as she is to Kanako now.
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PostSubject: Re: Mao's Coaches   Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:51 am

Sato-sensei, for sure. He's been fabulous not only in correcting her technique, but also in helping build her self-confidence. I love her new attitude.

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