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swan
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:09 pm

ballerinamao wrote:

bellarinamao, this will be my last reply to your scoring issues.

I know you love Mao. We all do here. I also think you hate Yuna (well, I can conveniently guess from your posts) very much. No matter what reason we give you will always feel that way about her and I can't do anything about that. Favoritism or not it's not only Yuna who's been getting high PCS. A lot of people bashed Mao when she beat Akiko in PCS for a subpar skate. Did you complain? Of course not. Mao's PCS has been steadily increasing. And not just Mao. Ashley, Carolina, Kiira and others' PCS have been steadily increasing for putting out consistent skates. Can't you see it or is it that you turn a blind eye to those not named Yuna and Mao? I don't see you complaining about Carolina. Have you seen her Nationals scores? 140+ for a base value lower than Yuna. TES lower than Yuna and PCS higher than what Yuna got at KOR Nationals. 76+. Did I see you complain? NO.

And, btw, Nationals scores do not get ratified as personal bests. Never have and I think never will. Nationals is a venue for federations to promote their skaters although I think Japan has been very stringent in promoting theirs. It's not just Korean Nationals. Other national competitions do, too.

I leave you to your issues now.[/quote]

yes I certainly love Mao more then you can imagine, and you are free to think whatever you want, if you conclude that I hate yuna because i think her scores are inflated, well that's up to you.


you say that Kim isn't the only one to gets high PCS, well there is a big difference between a skater getting high PCS and another who (unjustifiably) get's SKY HIGH PCS and GOE.
I will give you a challenge can you find i skater that receives just as much PCS as her? any skater that has reached the same amount of PCS and GOE for a clean skate in an international competition? I wish you good luck, because you can search all you want, but you won't find any!

the only reason why i haven't mentioned Carolina is because Carolina never got that degree of inflated scores in international competitions, and by the way this discussion was about Kim so that's why i naturally talked about her.

and no i didn't complain about Mao winning NHK she gave a magnificent sp and a great fs, and unlike certain skaters NOTHING in her score stood out!

[/quote]

Rolling Eyes i can't believe you're replying to her after her last reply towards you.


Last edited by swan on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:32 pm

roma wrote:
ballerinamao wrote:

Quote :
I was merely arguing about your base value complain. Saying Yuna has a base value way below what most top skaters attempt is what I feel outrageous. BASE VALUE. If you read my previous posts you'll know I also complain about the high PCS. If you have also read my other previous posts on previous seasons you'll know that I hated it when she got high PCS for very subpar performances (see Worlds 2010).

In this competition, it's a natural thing for her to get sky high PCS just like Carolina since obviously they are way ahead of the rest of the field competing in their home country unlike Japan Nats where the field is very, very deep.

so because it's nationals that ratifies Kims scores, sorry i don't feel the same way, and probably never will, because that just confirms that there ability to judge is nonexistent, and it also makes me suspicious about whether the same judges there actually are international judges, because this isn't the first time she received these outrages scores!

Quote :
Quote :
ballerinama wrote:

and you say it's positive when other skaters attempt more difficult content, well it's positive, but not when they have to do that in order to catch up to a skaters whose scores consists of inflation
And what do you want see? A 3-2 beating a difficult 3Lz+3T in marks? Even a 3T+3T already has a 2pt difference from a 3Lz+3T although a well executed one gets very high GOEs like what Caro and Kanako got at some competitions last season. Aren't we complaining when we see the level of jumps remain low? Don't we want to see Mao do her 3A and 3-3s again? Aren't we encouraging her to do her 3As or 3-3s when she's ready? Mao herself is not contended with her current layout even if her current FS layout is already very competitive when skated clean.
What i want to see, is that the judges don't show blatant favoritism towards a certain skater. because that does no favor for the sport nor the fans, and certainly doesn't give the viewers faith in the judging system. What I certainly don't want to see is a skater who can comfortably rely on(inflanted) PCS and GOE while the others have to challenge for more difficult elements to match it!


bellarinamao, this will be my last reply to your scoring issues.

I know you love Mao. We all do here. I also think you hate Yuna (well, I can conveniently guess from your posts) very much. No matter what reason we give you will always feel that way about her and I can't do anything about that. Favoritism or not it's not only Yuna who's been getting high PCS. A lot of people bashed Mao when she beat Akiko in PCS for a subpar skate. Did you complain? Of course not. Mao's PCS has been steadily increasing. And not just Mao. Ashley, Carolina, Kiira and others' PCS have been steadily increasing for putting out consistent skates. Can't you see it or is it that you turn a blind eye to those not named Yuna and Mao? I don't see you complaining about Carolina. Have you seen her Nationals scores? 140+ for a base value lower than Yuna. TES lower than Yuna and PCS higher than what Yuna got at KOR Nationals. 76+. Did I see you complain? NO.

And, btw, Nationals scores do not get ratified as personal bests. Never have and I think never will. Nationals is a venue for federations to promote their skaters although I think Japan has been very stringent in promoting theirs. It's not just Korean Nationals. Other national competitions do, too.

I leave you to your issues now.

roma, again, i agree with you all the way! while i hate how yu-na's scores are inflated, sadly so are a lot of other skaters'! and, yes, it's sad that scores are inflated but such scores are not to be taken seriously!
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:59 am

[...]


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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:08 am

swan wrote:
while i hate how yu-na's scores are inflated, sadly so are a lot of other skaters'! and, yes, it's sad that scores are inflated but such scores are not to be taken seriously!

Yes plz, those B-intl and Nats scores really do not need to be taken so seriously...they're not even official scores which go on the skaters records, plus most of the judges in each Nats are from the countrie's Feds mainly and not ISU (I think they invite 1 or 2 ISU judges sometimes for Nats but usually the judges are Fed judges aren't they?). So is this really such an important matter you should argue about? If you get heated up about such minor competitions, how in the world will you ever manage to enjoy Worlds or Olys?

ballerinamao, I truely understand the frustration your going through. I think roma and most likely every other member in this forum (who's a Mao fan) has been through the same frustration as you at some point. But in order to go on enjoying the performances, supporting Mao and some other faves positively, you have to try just a little bit more to make peace with how things are in this sport. This sport, however beautiful it is in the rink, is no rose garden at all. I believe alot of countrie's Feds lobby, politik, and score their skaters generously at Nats as a tactic to have them well recieved by Worlds. I personally think there's no such thing as a completely clean sport, and even if there are, figure skating is not one of them. Don't you guys remember this?:

http://figureskate.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/patrick-ibens-interview/

There even was a Korean ISU judge who talked to the press openly that they hold 'meetings' before a competition and choose which skaters they'll basically score highly compared to others with no sense of guilt at all! This interview was taped and uploaded on YT about 2 seasons before Vancouver Olys if I remember correctly. Don't know if it's still on YT or not, but I saw it with my own eyes and you cannot possibly imagine how unfair I thought that was. But that's how they do the judging, and we can't change anything about that (unless maybe all skating fans get together like the 60's or something and start a protest movement against ISU...but sadly that's not going to happen). Unless all skating fans are up to giving the judges an hour or two to discuss and debate who deserves the highest PCS and GOEs etc. and wait patiently for the outcome, they have no choice but to hand scores based on their 'meetings' and a skater's reputation up to some point. That's why I think CoP is as crappy as 6.0 except for making base values clear. PCS and GOEs can never be objective therefore they need time and effort to reach a conclusion which may assumingly be a bit more fair compared to the way they actually do it. But we don't want to wait that long till the scores come out do we? And the ISU doesn't seem to have enough money to rent a stadium for that long a time. That's why they have a bunch of judges instead of one scoring the same performance , hoping that the outcome of the scores will satisfy the majority of the audience I suppose...but it's not working that well and that's precisely why alot of us get frustrated from time to time.

ballerinamao, you asked me what I thought about your views in this thread and I told you I'm in no position to judge whether what you felt about a skater's performance is right or wrong. I also told you that I felt you have every right to express your thoughts as you like. But sorry, I hadn't read up to the very end of this thread at that time, so there is one thing I think I really need to add. I considered PMing you like before, but I'd like everyone to read what I'm about to write so I'm posting it. And when I write 'you', I don't necessarily mean ballerinamao only but eveyone in general including me:

I think everyone can of course write what they felt about a performance or the scores. But I think it's meaningless to try to change how others feel or think when their views differ from yours. In this forum, up till around Vancouver Olys, members would write their opinions and they were all different more or less. But nobody bothered to try to change somebody's views. If you agree with someone you'd just write ITA period. If not, you'd just say 'I kind of understand what you're saying but I rather felt blah blah blah...' period. Most of our posts ended there, and nobody hardly went on replying back trying to prove the other person wrong, unless they really thought it was necessary (like when someone says something personally rude to you). But recently it's as if alot of you are so busy debating on skaters other than Mao. Figure skating is an artistic performance as well as sport so it's only natural for people to have different impressions. So there's no right or wrong in how and what we feel from a performance. So what's the point in trying to make someone else say 'Okay, I get your point now. I was wrong, you were right!'? Even when some other caring member comes along inbetween saying 'I love how we all respect eachothers different opinions here!', that doesn't sound so convincing to me anymore. This forum turns into a battlefield so easily thesedays.

Still, debating in this forum isn't against the rules or anything. If you want to go ahead. But the more you debate and go on and on and on trying to convince someone who opposes to your views to be wrong, you're all going to end up getting edgy towards eachother and this forum will not truely be a 'big happy family of Mao supporters' anymore. If you want to debate, why don't you all go to ISU Discussion Board? The members there love to debate! Here, I'll paste a link for the thread in which they're discussing Yuna:

http://forums.isu.org/viewtopic.php?t=1970&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100

There are lots of egoistic members there but even they're debating in a more rational manner (most of the time). I'm not being ironical. If you want to have a structural debate, ISU Discussion Board is the place to go. If you get emotional there you'll automatically lose. The people there debate stuff based not only on their views but on past and present info, rules and most of all what they've actually seen and felt in the past concerning this sport.
I was once so frustrated when Yuna won silver at Worlds in Torino after Vancouver Olys...(I still think her skate then was terrible in terms of performance)...So, I posted in ISU Discussion Board how I felt. But then another senior member there replied 'Why? She (Yuna) landed 5 (or was it 6?) triples in her FS. If that's not enough, who do you think should've won silver then?'...and I realised that I wasn't able to come up with another name. Up till then, I never even bothered to count how many triples Yuna succeeded. I was totally biased about her as being too overscored all the time. And while I was asking such an amateurish question like that, most of the members there were upset about Lepisto winning bronze with so few triples and were debating where and how the rules and judgings went wrong.
What I want to say is, that you can learn alot from ISU Discussion Board. Not all the people there may seem nice, but it's because it's a place for debate. They don't consider themselves as 'one big happy figure skating fan family', nor do they pretend to be. And I like that honesty. IMO, if you really want to debate seriously, you have to sacrifice the 'happy family' attitude. If you don't want to sacrifice that here, then go somewhere else when you feel like debating. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:30 am

dawnsherearequiet wrote:
Yes, not only Kim gets overscored, but only Kim had been carried on judges' hands druing 3 seasons in a row in every important competition including Olympics and 3 World championships.
But I guess you haven't noticed.

THIS. I don't hate Yuna, I don't know her as a person, but I do HATE the way she's been judged since 2009. Yes she has flawless jumping technicque (flip is questionable at times though), but is this trully all that's important? What about her horrid spiral and spins?! And for those she received the same or even higher GOE than Mao. Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad

While I agree with those who said that B intl scores and Nationals scores are not to be taken seriously, I also understand ballerinamo's frustration, because you just know, that no matter how Yuna will skate at worlds she'll receive a higher score than she'd actually deserves.

PochinkoPotanko wrote:
There even was a Korean ISU judge who talked to the press openly that they hold 'meetings' before a competition and choose which skaters they'll basically score highly compared to others with no sense of guilt at all! This interview was taped and uploaded on YT about 2 seasons before Vancouver Olys if I remember correctly. Don't know if it's still on YT or not, but I saw it with my own eyes and you cannot possibly imagine how unfair I thought that was. But that's how they do the judging, and we can't change anything about that (unless maybe all skating fans get together like the 60's or something and start a protest movement against ISU...but sadly that's not going to happen). Unless all skating fans are up to giving the judges an hour or two to discuss and debate who deserves the highest PCS and GOEs etc. and wait patiently for the outcome, they have no choice but to hand scores based on their 'meetings' and a skater's reputation up to some point. That's why I think CoP is as crappy as 6.0 except for making base values clear. PCS and GOEs can never be objective therefore they need time and effort to reach a conclusion which may assumingly be a bit more fair compared to the way they actually do it. But we don't want to wait that long till the scores come out do we? And the ISU doesn't seem to have enough money to rent a stadium for that long a time. That's why they have a bunch of judges instead of one scoring the same performance , hoping that the outcome of the scores will satisfy the majority of the audience I suppose...but it's not working that well and that's precisely why alot of us get frustrated from time to time.

While I suspected this was going on, I'm shocked that a judge admited it openly! Shocked

This is what I don't understand. Japan gives the MOST money to the ISU as their sponsors, why are they putting up with this? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a competition where skaters would be judged based on their performance and not on their past achivements and backstage politicks, but since this is going on, why in God's name does Japan Fed just sits around and doing nothing, while their skaters get UNFAIRLY screwed?!! And why is ISU risking the possibility of losing the much needed japanese sponsorship money by so obviously holding up others and screwing Mao at every chance they get?! scratch
I might be wrong, but this is how I see things...
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:15 pm

dawnsherearequiet wrote:
zarinabellarina wrote:
Yes, not only Kim gets overscored, but only Kim had been carried on judges' hands druing 3 seasons in a row in every important competition including Olympics and 3 World championships.
But I guess you haven't noticed..

THIS. I don't hate Yuna, I don't know her as a person, but I do HATE the way she's been judged since 2009. Yes she has flawless jumping technicque (flip is questionable at times though), but is this trully all that's important? What about her horrid spiral and spins?! And for those she received the same or even higher GOE than Mao. Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad

While I agree with those who said that B intl scores and Nationals scores are not to be taken seriously, I also understand ballerinamo's frustration, because you just know, that no matter how Yuna will skate at worlds she'll receive a higher score than she'd actually deserves.

Totally agree! Sorry to the other members, I don't want to argue, it's just that I've feeling the same frustration that "zarinabellarina" and "dawnsherearequiet" since 2009. Like I said before, the judges found everything in Yuna's skating extraordinary and gave her a lot of GOE in everything, I'm speaking about international competitions, like Vancouver or 2012 Worlds, when some parts of her skate, like spins, spirals or steps, are just ordinary. But, at the same time, they didn't recognize the extraordinary qualities of other skaters, like Mao. It's what I think is truly unfair!

I feel it start to change this season, when the judges start to give to Mao the PCs she deservers, I hope it will be confirm at 4CC and Worlds!

dawnsherearequiet wrote:
While I suspected this was going on, I'm shocked that a judge admited it openly! Shocked

This is what I don't understand. Japan gives the MOST money to the ISU as their sponsors, why are they putting up with this? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a competition where skaters would be judged based on their performance and not on their past achivements and backstage politicks, but since this is going on, why in God's name does Japan Fed just sits around and doing nothing, while their skaters get UNFAIRLY screwed?!! And why is ISU risking the possibility of losing the much needed japanese sponsorship money by so obviously holding up others and screwing Mao at every chance they get?! scratch
I might be wrong, but this is how I see things...

I always ask me the same questions, why Japanesse Federation doesn't do anything? I don't mean to start to scoring their own skaters unfairly, it don't be honest, I mean to force to ISU to score all the skaters fairly? I always read in all the forums that Japanesse Federation is very strong, also that Japan's sponsors are who give most money to ISU Panic!
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:32 pm

zarinaballerina wrote:
dawnsherearequiet wrote:
Yes, not only Kim gets overscored, but only Kim had been carried on judges' hands druing 3 seasons in a row in every important competition including Olympics and 3 World championships.
But I guess you haven't noticed.

THIS!

Quote :

THIS. I don't hate Yuna, I don't know her as a person, but I do HATE the way she's been judged since 2009. Yes she has flawless jumping technicque (flip is questionable at times though), but is this trully all that's important? What about her horrid spiral and spins?! And for those she received the same or even higher GOE than Mao. Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad

lol, this is what i'm talking about, what is even more frustrating, is that even through her skating clearly has regressed her scores have never been much higher in terms of PCS and Goe, it just doesn't make sense!



Quote :

While I agree with those who said that B intl scores and Nationals scores are not to be taken seriously, I also understand ballerinamo's frustration, because you just know, that no matter how Yuna will skate at worlds she'll receive a higher score than she'd actually deserves.


THIS!


PochinkoPotanko wrote:
There even was a Korean ISU judge who talked to the press openly that they hold 'meetings' before a competition and choose which skaters they'll basically score highly compared to others with no sense of guilt at all! This interview was taped and uploaded on YT about 2 seasons before Vancouver Olys if I remember correctly. Don't know if it's still on YT or not, but I saw it with my own eyes and you cannot possibly imagine how unfair I thought that was. But that's how they do the judging, and we can't change anything about that (unless maybe all skating fans get together like the 60's or something and start a protest movement against ISU...but sadly that's not going to happen). Unless all skating fans are up to giving the judges an hour or two to discuss and debate who deserves the highest PCS and GOEs etc. and wait patiently for the outcome, they have no choice but to hand scores based on their 'meetings' and a skater's reputation up to some point. That's why I think CoP is as crappy as 6.0 except for making base values clear. PCS and GOEs can never be objective therefore they need time and effort to reach a conclusion which may assumingly be a bit more fair compared to the way they actually do it. But we don't want to wait that long till the scores come out do we? And the ISU doesn't seem to have enough money to rent a stadium for that long a time. That's why they have a bunch of judges instead of one scoring the same performance , hoping that the outcome of the scores will satisfy the majority of the audience I suppose...but it's not working that well and that's precisely why alot of us get frustrated from time to time.

While I suspected this was going on, I'm shocked that a judge admited it openly! Shocked

This is what I don't understand. Japan gives the MOST money to the ISU as their sponsors, why are they putting up with this? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a competition where skaters would be judged based on their performance and not on their past achivements and backstage politicks, but since this is going on, why in God's name does Japan Fed just sits around and doing nothing, while their skaters get UNFAIRLY screwed?!! And why is ISU risking the possibility of losing the much needed japanese sponsorship money by so obviously holding up others and screwing Mao at every chance they get?! scratch
I might be wrong, but this is how I see things...


believe me i have been wondering the same thing for soo long!

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:09 pm

zarinaballerina wrote:
There even was a Korean ISU judge who talked to the press openly that they hold 'meetings' before a competition and choose which skaters they'll basically score highly compared to others with no sense of guilt at all![/b] This interview was taped and uploaded on YT about 2 seasons before Vancouver Olys if I remember correctly. Don't know if it's still on YT or not, but I saw it with my own eyes and you cannot possibly imagine how unfair I thought that was. But that's how they do the judging, and we can't change anything about that (unless maybe all skating fans get together like the 60's or something and start a protest movement against ISU...but sadly that's not going to happen). Unless all skating fans are up to giving the judges an hour or two to discuss and debate who deserves the highest PCS and GOEs etc. and wait patiently for the outcome, they have no choice but to hand scores based on their 'meetings' and a skater's reputation up to some point. That's why I think CoP is as crappy as 6.0 except for making base values clear. PCS and GOEs can never be objective therefore they need time and effort to reach a conclusion which may assumingly be a bit more fair compared to the way they actually do it. But we don't want to wait that long till the scores come out do we? And the ISU doesn't seem to have enough money to rent a stadium for that long a time. That's why they have a bunch of judges instead of one scoring the same performance , hoping that the outcome of the scores will satisfy the majority of the audience I suppose...but it's not working that well and that's precisely why alot of us get frustrated from time to time.
That's ABSURD!! affraid Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:28 pm

I can understand the judges giving Yuna high scores on her jumps (although her sal combo at nationals was clearly under rotated) but everything outside of that and her interpetation of the music should be getting level3 or under. It's subpar at best.

But I think ISU wanted to hype up FS for the 2010 Olympics, considering it lost alot of fans after the 90's-early 00's, and hyping up Yuna, who was the most consistant in her jumps at the time, seemed to be their best choice. But it got reidiculous when they started overlooking her poor qualities and giving her over inflated scores with programs that had bad spirals, sub par spins, terrible spread eagles (not sure if it's the correct name for it), and lackluster step sequences, while giving skaters who do theirs better, lower score and goe to continue the overhype. Of course they are giving the other skaters the right scores now, because the Olympis are over, and she got the gold. But they didn't even change the protocals until after Olympic/worlds 2010.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:19 pm

Just some comments:

SP
1. It is impressive how she she changed her planned 3F to 3F-3T after botching her lutz. Quick thinking Yuna! (Nobu, please take notes)
2. Her speed looks more or less the same to me.
3. Is there indoor heating in the rink? The audience looks like they're ready to go skiing or something.
4. I still have lukewam feelings for this program.
5. What's up with her 3S? Was it just me or was the landing shaky?

FP
1. LES MISERABLES MUSIC YES!
2. Everytime she's not jumping or doing her step sequence I get bored, hmm.
3. Was that an UR on the 3T on the Lutz combo or just a trick of the light?
4. She's still giving a lot of points away. I'm not sure if she should she be given level 4s for elements if she were competing in an ISU competition.
5. Strong skate! Lovely smile! Gorgeous skater! Well done, Yuna.

Others:
1. Scoring 210 at Korean nationals isn't that much of a big deal. Hey, it's Yuna after all. OGM remember? Korea's national hero? Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. In an ISU competition, her scores would definitely be significantly lower.
2. Absence from competition comes with a price. This Yuna might never ever become Vancouver Yuna, but that's okay. She's already giving other skaters hell. Her comeback could actually be good for the sport.
3. She should try other choreographers. I can put the music of Giselle on her Kiss of the Vampire SP and it wouldn't have made that much of a difference. Les Mis is a good program that maximizes Yuna's strengths, but it also could've been better.
4. Yuna's fans are really creative aggafgadf

5. It's a shame she wouldn't compete at 4CC.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:02 pm

Does anyone know where the first 61 pages of this thread went?
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:19 pm

l-spiralmao wrote:
Does anyone know where the first 61 pages of this thread went?

I know right, it must've just happened within the past 4-6 hours.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:09 am

zarinaballerina wrote:

While I suspected this was going on, I'm shocked that a judge admited it openly! Shocked

This is what I don't understand. Japan gives the MOST money to the ISU as their sponsors, why are they putting up with this? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a competition where skaters would be judged based on their performance and not on their past achivements and backstage politicks, but since this is going on, why in God's name does Japan Fed just sits around and doing nothing, while their skaters get UNFAIRLY screwed?!! And why is ISU risking the possibility of losing the much needed japanese sponsorship money by so obviously holding up others and screwing Mao at every chance they get?! scratch
I might be wrong, but this is how I see things...

I don't have any special info about the Jpnse Fed or how much of a say the Jpnse sponsers have in this sport...but from some tv interviews and discussions I saw around the time before and after Vancouver Olys, the Jpnse Fed continuously stated that they are and have been doing as much as they can for Jpnse skaters (by protesting to the ISU on jugdings etc.) eversince Midori Ito's days. They also said back then that they did everything possible to try to have Mao enter Torino Olys despite her age problem. In those days (before Torino), that Shirota Noriko seemed to have alot of power in the Fed, and I remember her almost yelling back at the press something like 'We did everything to get Mao into Torino Olys! But it just wasn't possible! Do you think we sat here doing nothing!?'. Alot of Mao fans had been phoning or mailing them to do something about Mao's situation, the Jpnse Fed was...pretty 'fed up' with the commotion, lol. After Torino, Shirota was kicked out of the Fed (she's back now though), for using the Fed's money for personal benefits. The way I see it, Shirota has a bad attitude. However, if anybody, she was one of the strongest people who did seem gutsy enough to stand up and fight against ISU when it was necessary. I think that's why some skaters made requests to the Jpnse Fed to take her in again. And so she returned but according to info on the net Shirota doesn't have the power she used to have within the Fed anymore.

Once I saw a discussion show on tv where they called a sport critic who answered questions and explained things about how the figure skating world is. I don't remember the exact theme of the discussion, but it was something like are there stuff going on backstage (lobbying, politiking, etc.) which influences the scores and results in skating competitions. The show I think was broadcasted after Vancouver Olys if I remember correctly; a time when so many people in Jpn believed that the Koreans bribed ISU to make Yuna win Olys gold (but even though the Koreans do seem to have a history of bribery in sport, there's no proof of actual bribery in figure skating, so I made it my own rule not to share that particular view). Anyway, the sport critic didn't give us much answers clearly. He would answer vaguely that there is a high possibility of backstage string-pullings, but that was all. However, he did state wide and loud that the Jpnse Fed only plays the game in an out-of-date attitude compared to other countries' Feds. He said something like...other countrie's Feds try hard to make ISU set new rules which their skaters can benefit from, but the Jpnse Fed doesn't put much weight on those things. He said the main reason the Jpnse Fed doesn't say much in meetings held by the ISU is...simply because they don't have enough good Eng speakers (sigh). They do not debate because they can't speak the language well. So, the Jpnse Fed couldn't avoid ISU from setting the UR rule which at the time seemed to alot of Jpnse fans as a way for other countries to try to get rid of Mao's 3A. They also couldn't avoid them changing one of the +GOE jump requirements from 'with good height or width' to 'with good height and width' either, and I think we all know that that lowered Mao's chances of getting +GOEs because her jumps had alot of height then but not width.

So I'd say from all I know, as you say zarina, the Jpnse Fed hadn't been doing much or say, even doing nothing. That's why Jpnse figure skating fans basically do not trust nor like our Fed at all. There's always a blogger or an anonymous poster in a BBS who's calling out 'Let's all send our complaints to the Jpnse Fed for our skaters!' kindly posting the phone number and e-mail address of the Fed along. The Jpnse Fed's official site has erased their phone numbers and any other contact sources long ago...I assume they were getting tons of angry fan mail and stuff so they had no choice but to erase those infos from their site. The last time I ever went to their site, I think...not sure...that they had a form in which you can write your opinions in and send to them, but don't know if it's still there. But if the Jpnse Fed ever did anything for their skaters or for at least Mao's sake, they did manage to make ISU allow ladies to jump a solo 3A instead of a 2A in SP if they want. And as a result Mao was able to make a world record of succeeding three 3As in a competition, although she didn't get the gold in Olys. But personally, I think ISU only allowed this new rule, since they already had their mind set to give the gold to Yuna (as long as she skated fairly clean), and felt sorry for Mao. It seemed like 99% of the figure skating fan population never imagined ISU would allow a solo 3A obviously just for one skater (Mao) to benefit from it at the time, and I didn't either. But they did, and it really felt odd. In cases like this, I can't help suspecting deals and politikings in this sport.

Now, what are the Jpnse sponsers doing? My impression is that there doing nothing but funding the sport or certain competitions in exchange of getting Mao or Dai to appear in their product ads. And they have their commercials running over and over when they broadcast competitions on tv. My guess is that Jpnse companies do not believe they have any sort of say concerning the sport even when they're sponsoring it. The reason I think this is because many Jpnse companies have experience sponsering mainly baseball, soccer or car races; all genres in which sponsers cannot control the outcome of the games. So I think most companies consider figure skating in the same sense. They will probably never ever threaten ISU that they may stop sponsering unless they score Jpnse skaters generously, and they'd probabaly never imagine even asking them politely to do so either. Even when Jpnse companies sponser a tv drama, they have absolutely no say in how the drama itself should be. If the ratings are good they'll go on sponsoring, if not they'll stop. It's as simple as that. I know this for sure cause my husband works in the tv industry alot. So if these sponsers are used to having no say in the contents of a mere fictional drama, how on earth would they think they have a say when they're sponsering some sport? That's not the way they do stuff, and the punchline is, it doesn't matter to them whether the Jpnse skaters win or lose. Why? Because Jpnse fans love the Jpnse skaters anyway! Mao, Dai, and maybe Miki...there all stars already. The sponsers just want them in their commercials, and have their company names around the rink just to show us they're supporting the stars we love. It's all for money. Those companies don't really care about the skaters at all. If the Jpnse skaters win an Intl competition, lucky them. But even if not, those companies won't be losing much anyways.

Last of all, when I wrote about the sport critic saying the Jpnse Fed is playing the game in an out-of-date manner, there's another element involved which is making them do so. You’re all probabaly sick of hearing this from me again but, there's this kind of 'fair play, fair win, fair lose' sort of moral philosophy rooting in Jpnse sport. I can only guess, but I think that there are alot of members in the Jpnse Fed who still think that's the way they should be. Therefore, trying to change the rules for the benefit of Jpnse skaters, showing off to the press how great a skater is to bias the readers, and handing generous scores in Nats so to influence ISU judges...these kind of things, are thought of as a dirty way to try to win. They may have done it sometimes, but compared to other countrie's Feds, I don't think the Jpnse Fed has even made half the effort to use such tactics. By the time Yuna started getting high scores, they probably got worried and had ISU allow Mao to include a solo 3A, but I don't think they would've tried doing even that much if they weren't threatened by Yuna. I hate to have to admit it, but when it comes to sport or politics, us Jpnse are so naive and too straight forward, we suck! I respect our morals of fighting fairly, believing that hard practicing as much as you can is the sole righteous path to victory etc., but if the other countries aren't playing the game in the same way, even when we have some of the best skaters it's going to be tough to have them win.

I hope my post gave some answers to your questions...but this is only how I see things, so it might be better to ask some other Jpnse member what he/she thinks, too. Smile

Btw, the Korean judge who openly said they decided in their meetings beforehand to give higher scores to certain top skaters...just to be fair, I should tell you that those certain top skaters she was talking about were Yuna and Mao. She mentioned their names in the video clip. I think the video was taken when they were having GPF in Korea in pre-Olys season.

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:55 am

Pochi thank you for your response.
I just couldn't help my self and had to laugh when I read the reason for not saying much at the ISU meetings. With all do respect, if english language is such a problem why don't they take a proffesional translator with them? This way they have a chance at helping their skaters, and also giving their input to the ISU. I doubt they're the only ones who have problem with english...

I actually agree with japanese about winning it fairly without any help from behind the scenes, however, since nowadays winning like this is ALMOST impossible, they should really step up and help their skaters, because them being treated like they are (had been) is also unfair, IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:57 am

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:31 am

zarinaballerina wrote:
Pochi thank you for your response.
I just couldn't help my self and had to laugh when I read the reason for not saying much at the ISU meetings. With all do respect, if english language is such a problem why don't they take a proffesional translator with them? This way they have a chance at helping their skaters, and also giving their input to the ISU. I doubt they're the only ones who have problem with english...

I actually agree with japanese about winning it fairly without any help from behind the scenes, however, since nowadays winning like this is ALMOST impossible, they should really step up and help their skaters, because them being treated like they are (had been) is also unfair, IMO.

Yep they really should take a translator with them if they aren't confident about their Eng! Rolling Eyes
But I think they may have a hard time finding a translator who knows the sport well enough to be able to support them in debates and discussions. scratch
Translators all have genres they specialize in, and I don't think that many translators would want to be a specialist in figure skating. They wouldn't be needed that often so there won't be much money in it for them. Yep, Sadly

dawnsherearequiet wrote:
PochinkoPotanko, there's actually no need for any nameless korean judge, who said something somewhen which later was deleted, if anyone requires (in 2013 AD, surprisingly!) an "official" confirmation of all this mess being carried out by ISU. Particularly TAT herself at least a few times openly said about how these things are being done (and if TAT doesn't know this matter, then who does?), among other things I clearly remember her saying that almost at every competition judges already know exact placement of the top dance pairs BEFORE the competition starts. (I suppose they'd know it for other disciplines too, but to our luck single skating has a bigger margin for mistake, so it makes the whole thing a little (but just a little) less predictable.)

As to why the Japanese fedration has been seemingly almost inactive in recent years, while some others enjoyed the full ISU support, I think the reasons is actually very simple -- one certain side is able to pay much more than others, and there's little else to it (aside from what you said about having some principles).

Yeah, I basically agree; not as much as you but I do know what Tat and her assistant had been saying about how this sport works. But since some members were not aware, or decline to admit how this sport actually is, I thought introducing that video clip would be convincing about how this sport actually works. At least in Jpn, alot of people saw that clip and it 'enlightened' many fans here on what exactly we're dealing with.

I really don't have much to say about your 'one certain side is able to pay much more than others' theory. It's difficult for me to imagine say...just for instance...the Korean Fed is much richer than the Jpnse Fed. Figure Skating has been a popular sport in Jpn much more and much longer than in Korea. So I would say not 'one certain side is able to pay much more than others', but rather 'one certain side is willing to pay much more than others'. And when it comes to 'paying' to win, Jpn simply does not play any game in that kind of manner. That would be totally out of line in our culture and values; our people only accept clean victories. Even if a Jpnse skater wins Olys gold, if his/her performance was full of faults raising suspicion on lobbying, politiking or bribery, the people in my country can never be happy about it. As I've said, we're straight-forward, square, pure and at times totally naive and even stupid when we face our opponents.

When Shinichi Shinohara lost his gold medal to David Douillet in 100kg level Judo in Sydney Olys, due to an obvious misjudge, Shinohara just said 'I lost because I was weak' and never complained at all. His coach and fellow Jpnse judo players filed a complaint to the judges afterwards, but Shinohara himself refused to admit it was a misjudge. Terribly generous, understanding and stupid guy don't you think? But Shinohara chose to follow one of the most important rules in Jpnse Judo; never question a judge. It was in the end, more important for him to be that way than winning a gold medal in Olys. OTOH, Douillet who thought he had lost right after the game, suddenly burst out into joy when he found out he had won. Even though he knew it was a misjudge. It was like half of Jpn thought Shinohara's attitude was respectable, while the other half thought he should fight against the misjudgement. But I'm pretty positive that almost every single person in Jpn despised the way Douillet had acted then. Because we all knew that if it were the other way around, Shinohara never would've been happy nor proud with his gold medal.

Just wrote the upper paragraph so to give you an actual example of how many Jpnse folks are like about sport...this case was a simple misjudge, no bribery nor any other strings attached. But being a citizen in a country with pure naive athletes like Shinohara, I can only hope that there'll be no actual bribery in Intl competitions for any sport. A bit of lobbying and politiking, I can stand; that's just human nature. But since paying to win is something athletes nor Feds in my country will never do even if they can afford it, if other countries' athletes and Feds should do so, our skaters do not have a chance however good they are. And however ridiculous Yuna's scores were in Vancouver Olys and during that entire season, unless someone finds solid proof, I will not believe the Koreans bribed ISU or the Olys Comittee. I know that you don't agree with me dawns, but it's too serious an accusation to pursue without proof.

But anyway...I do think Yuna's scores this season are too high. I'm only saying it's not bothering me not just yet. Wait till Worlds and if she gets the same kind of scores for a performance full of mistakes, then I'll most likely be bothered and frustrated as anyone! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:20 am

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:21 pm

dawnsherearequiet wrote:
I would also be curious to see that video, Pochinko, I just meant that while it is deleted an all, here's TAT who freely talks about all these matters during interviews and tv broadcasts like it's nothing special.

I understand dawns, I didn't take your post in any negative way. Don't worry! Thumbs up!

Btw I couldn't find the vid on YT, but you can still see it here:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6070542

But you have to sign up and be a member niconicodouga to see it. The other problem is...this judge is talking in Korean and there are only Jpnse subtitles to it. And she was talking about 4CC, not GPF; sorry, my mistake.

Anyway, here's a photo of her talking in that interview:


She was mostly asked questions on how the judges scored Yuna (in SP I think...) in the first half of the interview. It was close to the end when she said the judges decided to draw a line between 2 top skaters which according to her the judges refer to as 'couples' and said that Yuna and Mao were the 'couples' in this competition.

The subtitles in the upper photo says...

Q(uestion): Did the judges discuss anything in particular about Yuna amongst eachother?
(Answer in green): Credit marks (for Yuna) will be (or are being) differentiated compared to other skaters up to a certain level.

Since she's vice president(?) of the Korean Skating Fed, and she's being interviewed in Korean, I assume that this was for a Korean broadcast. Someone in Korea uploaded it on YT when it came out, but many people thought what she said in this clip was unfair to other skaters besides Yuna (even though Mao was included as a 'couple' with Yuna), so this vid was bashed alot by non-Koreans (assumingly). I think that's probabaly why the person who uploaded this on YT decided to delete it. Neutral

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:38 pm

I'm right there with you guys. I've been frustrated about this stuff for a long time too. The favoritism, unfair judging, politics, etc. I really wish something would be done about this. Unfortunately, I doubt we're ever going to see big changes. The federations and ISU would be doing themselves a big favor if they would just LISTEN TO THE FANS! We have a huge role in the sports success, and we have a lot of really good ideas and opinions. We have a voice, and from what I hear (not just on this forum), that voice getting more and more angry and fed up. I think we need to keep voicing our opinions. Sooner or later, maybe it will make a difference. Yeah, it's a bit of a long shot, but what else can we do?

Not that other sports are perfect when it comes to judging/ reffing, but it seems to be a more significant problem in figure skating than any other sport. Many fans now take the scores as a grain of salt. NOT GOOD. When I watch figure skating with people who don't normally watch it, they usually say stuff like, "why did THAT skater win?! They fell three times! That other skater was way better!" Then I have to try to explain everything to them, and they don't get it (or care much about getting).

I think I will always be a fan, and always watch, but sadly, I know I don't speak for everyone.

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:17 pm

PochinkoPotanko wrote:
And when it comes to 'paying' to win, Jpn simply does not play any game in that kind of manner. That would be totally out of line in our culture and values; our people only accept clean victories. Even if a Jpnse skater wins Olys gold, if his/her performance was full of faults raising suspicion on lobbying, politiking or bribery, the people in my country can never be happy about it. As I've said, we're straight-forward, square, pure and at times totally naive and even stupid when we face our opponents.
I don't know. It looks to me like Sumo wrestling--Japan's national sport--is in a very dirty world.

http://www.freakonomics.com/2006/06/09/what-do-the-japanese-think-of-our-sumo-chapter/

Fixed matches, whorehouses, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:01 am

lol.. how in the world judges will favor her or ISU for that matter.. THE KOREAN FED sucks! they are not influential. pyeongchang cannot even get a break in figure skating as ISU already put a limit in terms of qualification. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:55 am

Star85 wrote:
I'm right there with you guys. I've been frustrated about this stuff for a long time too. The favoritism, unfair judging, politics, etc. I really wish something would be done about this. Unfortunately, I doubt we're ever going to see big changes. The federations and ISU would be doing themselves a big favor if they would just LISTEN TO THE FANS! We have a huge role in the sports success, and we have a lot of really good ideas and opinions. We have a voice, and from what I hear (not just on this forum), that voice getting more and more angry and fed up. I think we need to keep voicing our opinions. Sooner or later, maybe it will make a difference. Yeah, it's a bit of a long shot, but what else can we do?

Not that other sports are perfect when it comes to judging/ reffing, but it seems to be a more significant problem in figure skating than any other sport. Many fans now take the scores as a grain of salt. NOT GOOD. When I watch figure skating with people who don't normally watch it, they usually say stuff like, "why did THAT skater win?! They fell three times! That other skater was way better!" Then I have to try to explain everything to them, and they don't get it (or care much about getting).

I think I will always be a fan, and always watch, but sadly, I know I don't speak for everyone.

I cannot agree with you more. If not for everyone, you certainly spoke for me! Thumbs up!
I think you understand the problems this sport has in the ways you've expressed them Star85, cause you're a singer who appreciates the presence of the audience. You must know the joys of what a performance can offer to the audience, and I believe it's the same with figure skating. It's a performance as much as it's a sport, so the fans/ audience are totally entitled to have a voice! I think most of us who have been fans of this sport long enough know better than to think that all the scorings are always correct. Competitions which makes the audience leave the stadium with unsatisfaction is no good for the skaters and the sport itself.

Quote :
PochinkoPotanko wrote:
And when it comes to 'paying' to win, Jpn simply does not play any game in that kind of manner. That would be totally out of line in our culture and values; our people only accept clean victories. Even if a Jpnse skater wins Olys gold, if his/her performance was full of faults raising suspicion on lobbying, politiking or bribery, the people in my country can never be happy about it. As I've said, we're straight-forward, square, pure and at times totally naive and even stupid when we face our opponents.
I don't know. It looks to me like Sumo wrestling--Japan's national sport--is in a very dirty world.

http://www.freakonomics.com/2006/06/09/what-do-the-japanese-think-of-our-sumo-chapter/

Fixed matches, whorehouses, etc.

I'm nor sure about the whorehouses, but yes it seems according to some Sumo wrestlers there seems to have been fixed matches in the past in this 'sport' of ours. But Sumo is totally different from figure skating or any almost any other sport in Jpn since it's not just a 'sport' but more of a traditional performance. It's a religious ritual as much as a 'sport' based on our Shinto religion, and that's one of the reasons why they don't have Sumo wrestlings in other countries like Judo. Jpn invented both 'sport' but Sumo and Judo are totally different in that sense. And therefore the Sumo world is very very closed. They have their own Fed and nobody outside it has no say about how Sumo is whatsoever. Now one of the reasons that rumors of fixed matches (though the Fed never admitted any) came out is because Sumo has not had a big star player for a long time, and their tickets weren't selling well; we had a very strong unbeatable Sumo wrestler from Mongolia, but he did not follow the traditional morals of Sumo, so he wasn't Sumo star material. So I'm just guessing (other than the Fed people, nobody can do but guess about what's going on in Sumo cause it's such a closed community), but these fixed matches...if they ever really happened...were the Sumo world's ways of trying to create a star so that people in Jpn would show interest in the 'sport' once again. I'm one of those people who aren't interested in Sumo so I can't really explain much about it as I already have, but I'm pretty sure that the reason why the Sumo Fed might be in to making the 'sport' more attracting is not for money reasons, but because they feel strongly that they must keep this 'sport' alive as a cultural and religious 'ritual'. There have been some unrespectful young low ranked Sumo wrestlers recently, and they are the main ones who have been saying there are fixed matches. I wouldn't want to say they're lying just because they do unrespectful things in terms of Sumo morals, but I think it shows that even within the Sumo community, the traditional morals are going down hill.

Now with all that said, I still believe that most Jpnse athletes prefer to win or lose fairly. Sumo has ruined its' reputation because they might've thought it was okay to have fixed matches sometimes since the 'sport' solely exists in Jpn only. Sumo is no international sport in which we have our wrestlers compete against other countries' wrestlers. But when it comes to sport which we compete against other countries' athletes, our athletes do prefer to play fairly quite strongly. Plus if they don't, even if they win, Jpnse people will bash them to hell. That's what they did to the Sumo world when the kind of info in the article you linked to started leaking out in the open. And after then, the Sumo Fed has become much more strict towards their wrestlers than ever to avoid anymore scandals or even mere rumors. Over the years their morals have probabaly deteriorated in some parts, but since they've been bashed by fans and Jpnse people in general, the Sumo Fed has been trying their best to clean things up. They've included people who are fans of the sport but work in other fields like writers etc. into thier Fed so they can introduce objective views and speak on behalf of ordinary Sumo fans in meetings. I feel that should be credited, and hope that ISU would do the same someday. Yep!

polly10 wrote:
lol.. how in the world judges will favor her or ISU for that matter.. THE KOREAN FED sucks! they are not influential. pyeongchang cannot even get a break in figure skating as ISU already put a limit in terms of qualification. Rolling Eyes

I think the problem with the Korean Fed is that they put too much weight on Yuna and not the other young skaters in Korea. Yuna is a top levelled skater, she'll be fine on her own. It's the other skaters in Korea they should be helping out. I'm obviously no fan of Yuna, but I respect all that she did for the upcoming figure skaters in her country and how she tried to encourage kids in Korea to become interested in the sport. It's really a pity that even when Yuna will be achieving more than one spot for Korean skaters in the future again, the minimum score rule may end up preventing some Korean skaters to enter large competitions. I am totally against the minimum score thing; I think ISU made that rule just to save money. geek


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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:34 am

PochinkoPotanko wrote:
It's really a pity that even when Yuna will be achieving more than one spot for Korean skaters in the future again, the minimum score rule may end up preventing some Korean skaters to enter large competitions. I am totally against the minimum score thing; I think ISU made that rule just to save money. geek

Of course they made this rule to save the money, at skater's expense. Mad Though to be honest, small federations had brought this on themselves. They were warned what ISU will be forced to do if they vote against qualifying rounds. I guess all these federations saw was "no qualy's=no need to pay for skaters from their own pockets" and failed to realize what the new rule will do to them. Minimum score = no entry for some/most of the skaters from these federations.

To be honest, I agree with ISU or the hosting country that something needs to be done. It's unfair to expect that the host has to pay for all these skaters, especially "today" where there's a global crisis going on. I mean just look at the past competitions, there were over 50 ladies competing in the short program alone, some were having difficulties braking the SP score of 35. Whirly Now add the men and everyone else and you have some huge (unnecessary) cost. this being said, i don't like it however what ISU intends to do with this new rule, max 30 skaters per discipline. Heck no, worlds ain't no olympics! Evil or Very Mad
And what's with "we'll lower or lift the minimum score according to number of qualifying skaters" bussiness? Suspect It's unfair, yes you don't want to end up with 18 skaters in singles so I get the "lower" part, but if you lift the score it's unfair to those who already qualyfied. It's just one big mess.

I can only hope that this is some kind of back up plan, so ISU has enough time to come up with something better.

We let you stay knowing you only joined this forum to defend Yuna; plz be wise and keep your tone down in exchange.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:09 am

zarinaballerina wrote:
PochinkoPotanko wrote:
It's really a pity that even when Yuna will be achieving more than one spot for Korean skaters in the future again, the minimum score rule may end up preventing some Korean skaters to enter large competitions. I am totally against the minimum score thing; I think ISU made that rule just to save money. geek

Of course they made this rule to save the money, at skater's expense. Mad Though to be honest, small federations had brought this on themselves. They were warned what ISU will be forced to do if they vote against qualifying rounds. I guess all these federations saw was "no qualy's=no need to pay for skaters from their own pockets" and failed to realize what the new rule will do to them. Minimum score = no entry for some/most of the skaters from these federations.

To be honest, I agree with ISU or the hosting country that something needs to be done. It's unfair to expect that the host has to pay for all these skaters, especially "today" where there's a global crisis going on. I mean just look at the past competitions, there were over 50 ladies competing in the short program alone, some were having difficulties braking the SP score of 35. Whirly Now add the men and everyone else and you have some huge (unnecessary) cost. this being said, i don't like it however what ISU intends to do with this new rule, max 30 skaters per discipline. Heck no, worlds ain't no olympics! Evil or Very Mad
And what's with "we'll lower or lift the minimum score according to number of qualifying skaters" bussiness? Suspect It's unfair, yes you don't want to end up with 18 skaters in singles so I get the "lower" part, but if you lift the score it's unfair to those who already qualyfied. It's just one big mess.

I can only hope that this is some kind of back up plan, so ISU has enough time to come up with something better.

Hmmm, after reading your veiws, I'm now convinced there's a good side to this minimal rule afterall. I hadn't thought deeply enough about the expenses the host country would have to be paying for alot of things ISU does not. Enlightened~! Smile

But nevertheless, as you pointed out, there may not be much fairness in this rule, and it might end up creating alot of mess at some point. I also think it will be difficult for skaters who are right below the borderline score. They may have a chance to enter if they do not have enough skaters in the end, so they'll have to go on practicing until the last minute so to be well prepared when that should happen. But if it turns out ISU already has the amount of skaters over the minimum score, they don't get their chances. Their 'just in case' practices may still mean something of course, but it takes alot of money even to rent a rink so they would've wanted to save the money in cases where they can definitely enter a large competition. Yep, Sadly

Btw, Korean fans are raging against Mai for saying she did not understand why the judges scored Yuna so highly at Korean Nats. Chika Suguri (Fumie's little sister who's a sport commentator) said just about totally the same when Yuna scored over 70 in B-Intl, but that didn't seem to bother anybody, so why should they make a big deal out of Mai expressing her impressions? It's just because Mai is Mao's sister, huh? I've already found 3 news articles on this matter, and one of them was by Chuou Nippou, which is supposed to be a major newspaper in Korea isn't it? Do they not have more important things to write about? ROTFLMAO

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20130115-00000053-cnippou-kr

Yuna looks beautiful in the photo of the above article though. I luv almost all her costumes. I have to admit that her costumes are fab! They're the type of dresses I'd like to wear to fancy parties...though I never have a chance to go to any. Boo hoo! Crying or Very sad

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:36 am

I loved Yuna FS from Nationals, it's still not Olympic quality, but love her flow and confidence! Still can't get her SP, but her LP is magnificent with Yuna dramatic expressions. Wub And the score is fine, this is Nationals and Yuna is 100 heads above everyone else in that competition. I still believe comparing scores from different competition is not right, cause judges always comparing skaters to their other competitors in particular event.
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