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Abdiel
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:02 am

I'm thankful that Mao doesn't skate to win, but to deliver what she's been practicing. Winning is not the top priority. Performing at her very best is. If she wins by a sub-par performance, she'll feel bad about it. If she doesn't get the credit she deserves, she keeps working hard. Go MAO!!!  Dance 

Yuna shares this perform-to-deliver-good-results mentality too, based on the rough translation of her post-SP interview.

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:19 am

Iceriver wrote:
silenceisgolden wrote:
I think that Mao was supposed to get nearly 80 (officially!) at GPF if Amano was not there. Mad

Mao should have scored at least 75 there

80 is a bit high, but without the mysterious (and only noticable to Amano and to that Korean chick) UR  Evil or Very Mad  Mad  Very Mad  Frustrated , she would've gotten 77-78. And had Yuna not competed at that stupid Golden spin, Mao's 3A wouldn't have been called, IMO.  Frustrated 

I know this is Yuna thread but God I hope Mao is going to skate lights out in Sochi and will leave EVERYONE behind.  Worship  Worship  Worship 

So Yuna got 80 for this? what will she get for LP, 160+?
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:00 am

IMO, this performance by Yuna and Mao's performance in the GPF should have scored more or less the same, this is around 77-78 as zarinaballerina said regarding Mao. I suppose that their Base Value is similar, and PCS should be quite similar too, so I expect almost the same score if they are both clean.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:05 am

Iceriver wrote:
IMO, this performance by Yuna and Mao's performance in the GPF should have scored more or less the same, this is around 77-78 as zarinaballerina said regarding Mao. I suppose that their Base Value is similar, and PCS should be quite similar too, so I expect almost the same score if they are both clean.

And it sickens me when the judges don't agree, like they had watched the routines through warped glasses.  Yep, Sadly 

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:05 am

I wouldn't get too worried, if Yuna is going to peak somewhere, then I don't mind it being at Nationals Escape I agree though that internationally this would get around 77 or 78, unless the Olympic judges decide to try and create extra excitement by handing out world records all over the place  Who, me?   

I saw on Twitter someone mentioned that Yuna's technical score was still lower than it was in Vancouver, so the high score was mostly the result of subjective PCS marks.  The Korean skating fed knew they needed to get her something close to an 80 to keep up the perception that Yuna is on a higher level than everyone else because it used to be that she was the only one to consistently get 70+ scores but now Japanese and Russian skaters are getting them too and if Ashley goes clean next week, she will almost certainly get 70+ as well at her nationals.  So Yuna having a clean and near perfect performance made it that much easier for them.  I'm curious now to see what happens in the LP.

Abdiel wrote:


I visited the YNKF, and I think Yuna being there has inspired the rest of the field to level up their game.  Smile

Just think how much better the other Korean ladies might be right now if Yuna had been at Nationals every year.

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:13 am

ElleluvsL wrote:
Abdiel wrote:


I visited the YNKF, and I think Yuna being there has inspired the rest of the field to level up their game.  Smile

Just think how much better the other Korean ladies might be right now if Yuna had been at Nationals every year.

Hopefully, the pressure of having the 2018 Winter Olympic Games in their country can inspire them too. It's a totally different atmosphere when you're sharing the rink with a top skater, Olympian or not.

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:43 pm

ElleluvsL wrote:
I wouldn't get too worried, if Yuna is going to peak somewhere, then I don't mind it being at Nationals Escape I agree though that internationally this would get around 77 or 78, unless the Olympic judges decide to try and create extra excitement by handing out world records all over the place  Who, me?   

I saw on Twitter someone mentioned that Yuna's technical score was still lower than it was in Vancouver, so the high score was mostly the result of subjective PCS marks.  


I think her TES in Vancouver is the highest she can ever get. Perhaps Abdiel can kindly provide more analysis of her jump quality yesterday  Smile . AT Worlds 2013, Zijun got 69 for TES, second only to Yuna with 74.

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:08 am


Yuna's FS

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:32 am

pearlyriver wrote:

Yuna's FS

What was her score? Nevermind...her score was 147.26 // 227.86 for that subpar performance. Korea is going crazy with their overinflation. I guess they wanted Yuna to beat Suzuki's 144+ LP.

As far as the program, I still don't like it. It's so boring, especially for her. Her 3-3 was under-rotated, her 2a combo was iffy, she popped the second 2a, and her overall speed was slow. This is either a really challenging program for her, or her foot injury is still acting up, because after 2 competition, she's still very slow compared to her usual speed. She won't get a high score if she brings this performance to Sochi.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:56 am

Her SP protocol:

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:57 am

Her FS protocol:

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:39 am

Thanks Shar. Which moron gave her 0 and 1 for a popped 2A?  Fried . This kind of juding doesn't even deserve to be at B-level. Why don't they give her all 10s for PCS to place her in a league of her own?  Hell, no! 

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:10 am

Her 3T was cheated and yet didn't get any '<':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZx5t8EB_lo&t=7m17s

Imagine if it were Mao and got her jump ratified, what hysterics we would be reading from Yunatics all over the Net.  Too sweet!  Commentator Frustrated
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:33 am

Wow the scores were through the roof. I am not sure if this deserves to be 3 points higher than Suzuki's skate, but not all nationals are equal.  Razz 
I think her performance here is much better than at Golden Spin. Her 3-3 looks less impressive. They used to soar into the air. Now they just look normal. Anyways, the choreography is still uneven for me. It feels like the emotions are turned on at some points than she goes off and does some elements. And it kinda just ends.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:55 am

As overscored as Yuna was, they only gave 178 total to Park Soyoun, the runner-up, who did pretty well actually. So it wasn't really Korean Nationals as a whole. Just score inflation for their only hope for a figure skating medal in Sochi.

I can't wait til Yuna retires. I wanna see the Korean Fed. grovel on their knees and cry.. and try to give a score of 210 to Park Soyoun at next year's Korean Nationals to try and promote her as the next Kim Yuna.

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:40 am

If I could describe Korean National with one word it would be "Desperation". That free skate was very overscored. It's like the Korean Fed knew that the talk about who is the best in the word was changing and that talk did not always include yuna. They must have watched Johnny and Tara praise Mao as the girl to beat and got shaken in there boots.

But that score is ????? I could see it scoring 135 at most but no way in H$** is that a 147 skate.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:49 pm

This program isn't even close to her Vancouver FS . She didn't make too many mistakes, but there was completely no fire and speed in the program, jumps also weren't as high, as they used to be in the past. She lost her strong points, which few years ago were making her differentiate from many other skaters.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:17 pm

Hmm...  I don't care much for either of these programs.  The FS seems lifeless and uninspired to me, like she was just phoning in the performance.  Everything was very slow, too. The SP was slightly better, but there's still nothing spectacular about it.  Just so-so.  

At least Akiko's inflated score at Nats was given for an inspiring and powerful performance...I can't say the same for this one.  Neutral  Then again, it was to be expected that she'd be scored this way here.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:03 pm

The following is taken from Yuna forum, as part of her post national interview.

Disclaimer:No. 1 -- as I don't know the original answer in Korean, there's no guarantee on the quality of the English translation; No. 2 -- I'm not sure about Yuna's intention about giving the answer, and I'm breaking my own rule here trying not to compare between Mao and Yuna, given that they are just two unique skaters who have their own talent and shortcomings as the best in the field.

On a final duel with Mao Asada
“Everyone wants to do well with what they do. I figure I might have less pressure on excelling compared to Mao. I don’t have make-it-or-break-it type of pressure about earning the OGM this time. I’d be happy with a great result of course, but I now have less pressure about the outcome itself. It’s not an easy thing to do, competing at a second Olympics. As we, who are at the same age, are to take the stage again at the Olympics, I wish her all the best.”

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:42 pm

COHK wrote:
The following is taken from Yuna forum, as part of her post national interview.

Disclaimer:No. 1 -- as I don't know the original answer in Korean, there's no guarantee on the quality of the English translation; No. 2 -- I'm not sure about Yuna's intention about giving the answer, and I'm breaking my own rule here trying not to compare between Mao and Yuna, given that they are just two unique skaters who have their own talent and shortcomings as the best in the field.

On a final duel with Mao Asada
“Everyone wants to do well with what they do. I figure I might have less pressure on excelling compared to Mao. I don’t have make-it-or-break-it type of pressure about earning the OGM this time. I’d be happy with a great result of course, but I now have less pressure about the outcome itself. It’s not an easy thing to do, competing at a second Olympics. As we, who are at the same age, are to take the stage again at the Olympics, I wish her all the best.”

I don't really buy that she doesn't have much pressure this time to win this time. I mean would her Fed or supporters be satisfied with something less than gold? Yuna was like semi-retired before suddenly deciding to compete again. I am sure there were a lot of 'other' reasons for this besides just a genuine love of the sport. I mean it's obvious her goal is the Olympics. She came back because she has a good chance to get a second OGM which will further secure her legacy. If her chances weren't that great, I doubt she would come back after having won the biggest title.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:42 pm

COHK wrote:
The following is taken from Yuna forum, as part of her post national interview.

Disclaimer:No. 1 -- as I don't know the original answer in Korean, there's no guarantee on the quality of the English translation; No. 2 -- I'm not sure about Yuna's intention about giving the answer, and I'm breaking my own rule here trying not to compare between Mao and Yuna, given that they are just two unique skaters who have their own talent and shortcomings as the best in the field.

On a final duel with Mao Asada
“Everyone wants to do well with what they do. I figure I might have less pressure on excelling compared to Mao. I don’t have make-it-or-break-it type of pressure about earning the OGM this time. I’d be happy with a great result of course, but I now have less pressure about the outcome itself. It’s not an easy thing to do, competing at a second Olympics. As we, who are at the same age, are to take the stage again at the Olympics, I wish her all the best.”


Final duel? That sounds even more nail-biting than Rome  Who, me? She's trying to leave off some pressure. Unless you're Yuna fans or Hersh's long lost brother/sister, her two pros are far below Vancouver level in terms of skating skills, jumps, energy and emotion.

Ilovethai, is that you playing the Nocturne?

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:30 am

pearlyriver wrote:
COHK wrote:
The following is taken from Yuna forum, as part of her post national interview.

Disclaimer:No. 1 -- as I don't know the original answer in Korean, there's no guarantee on the quality of the English translation; No. 2 -- I'm not sure about Yuna's intention about giving the answer, and I'm breaking my own rule here trying not to compare between Mao and Yuna, given that they are just two unique skaters who have their own talent and shortcomings as the best in the field.

On a final duel with Mao Asada
“Everyone wants to do well with what they do. I figure I might have less pressure on excelling compared to Mao. I don’t have make-it-or-break-it type of pressure about earning the OGM this time. I’d be happy with a great result of course, but I now have less pressure about the outcome itself. It’s not an easy thing to do, competing at a second Olympics. As we, who are at the same age, are to take the stage again at the Olympics, I wish her all the best.”


Final duel? That sounds even more nail-biting than Rome  Who, me? She's trying to leave off some pressure. Unless you're Yuna fans or Hersh's long lost brother/sister, her two pros are far below Vancouver level in terms of skating skills, jumps, energy and emotion.

Ilovethai, is that you playing the Nocturne?
I have a feeling that Yuna's sort of right though. Unless Yuna pops or falls on every jump in her SP or FS, she will be on the podium in Sochi and considering Yuna hasn't peaked yet (I think), she'll probably end up in the Top 2. Since she'll be under a lot less pressure than Mao, there's a high probability of her skating clean in both programs. However, her body strength and stamina could be her undoing.. plus the Olympics are different from Worlds.

@Pearlyriver, that's not me playing. It's someone else's recording of Nocturne. As great as Soundcloud is, the one annoying aspect of it is that you can't find legitimate recordings of songs by professionals. Songs on Soundcloud are mostly by amateurs.

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:01 am

ilovethai wrote:

I have a feeling that Yuna's sort of right though. Unless Yuna pops or falls on every jump in her SP or FS, she will be on the podium in Sochi and considering Yuna hasn't peaked yet (I think), she'll probably end up in the Top 2. Since she'll be under a lot less pressure than Mao, there's a high probability of her skating clean in both programs. However, her body strength and stamina could be her undoing.. plus the Olympics are different from Worlds.

@Pearlyriver, that's not me playing. It's someone else's recording of Nocturne. As great as Soundcloud is, the one annoying aspect of it is that you can't find legitimate recordings of songs by professionals. Songs on Soundcloud are mostly by amateurs.

You're right. I mean Yuna is no longer the overwhelming gold favorite like she was in Vancouver. I think it'd be hard to top Bond and Gershwin music. Other skaters will still have to skate lights out even if Yuna messes up. Her best asset is her ability to peak at the right moment.
That Nocturne is good enough for me. I read a comment on Youtube that even when human no longer exist on the Earth, hopefully the Nocturne survives so that the next being can understand how wonderful human once was.  Mushy Love 

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:20 am

I confess that I enjoyed Liza's Adios Nonino program more than Yuna's current version.  Escape 
The new costume goes well with the lay-over position though it still is a bit lacklustre. I'm not sure what image she wants to portray though. In my first viewing, she looks fragile and infatuated, if not hormonal.

Case Study: El Tango de Roxanne. When I compared her 2006 GPF and her 2007 WC performance, the latter had more spark, enthusiasm, and life that carried over from the skater. That was also the case in her 2005 JGPF and 2006 JWC. In both seasons, Yuna geared everything for the major competition, the world championships, so she focused on getting all the aspects of her programs together in the GP series. I think this is also the case with her Adios Nonino program. If she can make things work by the WOG, then it is just possible for Yuna to truly perform. That is, if she wants to do that. But from her interview, she said just focused on getting good results... Does that mean just hitting all the elements? (Not losing control of spins, no popping, no step-outs) If so, I'll be really disappointed because when performed with the right spark (like in her 2007 WC SP) Adios Nonino could be a really charming program. What do you guys think?


pearlyriver wrote:
I think her TES in Vancouver is the highest she can ever get. Perhaps Abdiel can kindly provide more analysis of her jump quality yesterday  Smile . AT Worlds 2013, Zijun got 69 for TES, second only to Yuna with 74.

I'll see what I can do.  Razz 

Like any other post-puberty skaters, Yuna had to adapt her skating to her new body. The substance is there, but if you've seen many skaters undergo puberty, I think you'll see what I mean. Here are a few things I noticed from Yuna's jumps this season.

(1) The air position and rotation speed. When she was a junior up to  her Vancouver form, her jumps just drilled into the air, fast and without preamble. I noticed that her shoulder-arm area rotates with her hips and legs as one cylinder, with her left elbow jutting out and her right arm tucked parallel to her body. When she checks out, she lands with stability and coordination. (I still love Mirai's check out position best of all because of the height of the free leg in addition to the flow out of the jump is just beautiful to watch. But in air position, I love Carolina's) The arm positioning isn't so visible when it's done in triple jumps, but if you would notice how Samantha Cabiles (another Orser-camp student) does her doubles, you'll see that she and Yuna have a similar arm tuck mannerism (hands to the left shoulder) when they snap their body to the proper air position (backward scratch spin position, with the arms and knees together, arms tucked in). The timing to get the shoulder-arm, and hip-leg positions right is important to avoid being off-axis, and URs. Her shoulder-arm position this time around isn't so different once I watched the slow-mo. But the timing at which she hits that position is different than before.

With her grown body, Yuna's rotation speed has noticeably decreased. Yuna has to adjust her arm tuck and leg-snap timing just right so that, she can do the air position and rotations properly, among other things. If the timing is off, the landings are less secure, leaving her open to URs, step-outs, or falls. If she gets the timing right, you get something like in her opening 3Lz(-3T) and 3F. Her combination jumps show a certain error in timing, maybe not enough to make mistakes, but you can notice how she's adjusting her body coordination to accommodate for the 2nd and/or 3rd jump in a combination. I noticed these in the -3T of the 3-3 (let's talk pointed this out already), -2T-2Lo in her 2A-2T-2Lo (in the previous season),-2T of her 2014 Nats LP 2A-2T (I think she checked out too late in her 2A). I also noticed that, in addition to leaning low before the take off, she also scrunches her left shoulder higher than her right while rotating. I think it might be the reason why her jumps look different in the air than her Vancouver form, which had really well-calibrated shoulder-arm-hip-leg coordination.

(2) The take off. Jumps are classified into two types, edge and toe. I notice that Yuna's edge jumps are less powerful compared to her toe jumps. This is not to say that Yuna can't do edge jumps; she's shown she could do decent 3S, 3Lo (less consistently) and 2A. Generally, she does toe jumps better and knows how to use it to her advantage.

With her new body, she can certainly put in the power on her skating leg and picking foot to get height (to compensate for decreased rotation speed), but she will have to bend down lower to do so, and raise her picking leg higher. (I think this was pointed out last year in this thread.) Once she picks in, the skating leg propels her upwards before she snaps into the air position. She cocks her picking leg just right to prevent a hammer toe, but she pre-rotates more now than in her Vancouver form.

While her edge jumps are neat and tidy, I think her edge jumps lack the 'spring' (See Kanako's and Miki's salchows) compared to her toe jumps. She had that spring in her 3Lo back in her junior days, but I noticed she didn't retain this post-puberty. Yuna trained toe jumps as part of 3-3, so her feel for edge jumps is different than, say, 3-3/2Lo jumpers. Yuna does have the power to execute the jumps properly, but probably decided against risking her body after her back recovered from the spine injury. Edge jumps put more strain on your take off leg than toe jumps, and I think that's part of the reason (in addition to Loop inconsistency) why she lays off the 3Lo. Her 3S is more stable, and decided it should suffice as an edge jump.

The axel, while being an edge jump, is a special case. Yuna has a lovely step-up to give her the height she needs, a bit like Sasha Cohen, but less 'fixed' and more 'natural' in terms of flow. Yuna bends her skating leg with her free leg cocked back and at the ready, just as any other skater. I love her timing here, especially when it works. She starts the step up from her skating leg just as her free leg goes past the skating leg, and completes the step-up (nice and high) at the apex of her free leg swing (see her knee at the level of her thigh). At the apex, her blade leaves the ice, she starts to snap into the air position to complete the rotation. Again, if the timing is wrong, the jump would be unsuccessful.

(3) Preparation. Is it just me, or is Yuna more cautious now? Her jumps are still a beauty to watch despite the changes, but I feel like she hesitates a millisecond longer before she does the actual jump entrance; the 3-turn before the 3F and 3S, the one-foot glide for the 3Lz and 2A. I think this has to do with timing the proper take off. This short period of hesitation is partly why I think her jumps looked less impressive than Vancouver Yuna.

.

I think Mao's Nocturne has a timeless quality about it, much like Ballade and I Vow to Thee My Country.

.

Umm... I think I'm rambling. Embarassed

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:08 pm

Thank you very much Abdiel! Very interesting post about Yuna's jumps, I just loved it  Very Happy . I'm a little overwhelmed now (in the good sense of the word  Wink) with so much information, but I may comment something else when I have more time.

And, about Yuna's programs, I like (I would say I love if it didn't sound too "bot" here  Embarassed ) her SP but found her LP lackluster at first. However, it's growing on me and, after watching some fancams from Korean Nationals, I think it has potential to become a really good program. You can like her style or not (I like it) but you have to admit that she knows her strengths very well, has clear ideas of what people like about her, and works hard to make her programs look quite effortless and fluid. As I said, she has a personal style (which can be quite repetitive in some cases, for instance her Giselle SP that was too dramatic and exaggerated for my taste) so if you don't like it you'll find most of her programs disappointing.
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