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 2013-2014 season programs

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pearlyriver
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:38 pm

helen91 wrote:

Max Aaron is like a puppy xD  Also GG is a spoiled brat and a lot of other things that I will not discuss here.  I can say that she is fooling a lot of people with that innocent girl act of hers though.  As far as I know she is letting this hype get to her head, (she is her biggest fan after all) and she believes that she deserves better coaching (which clearly isn't the case since it was her old coach who got her this far) but oh well.  I don't see her as being a threat anytime soon, or ever and when she gets higher PCs than Kanako I just have to shake my head.
Does the American media excel at spoiling thier hopefuls? Roddick, Gabby Douglas, Maronney, Ashley Wagner (although she may be actually nice and I heard that she gained more fan after her interview with TSL) and now Gracie.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:58 pm

pearlyriver wrote:

Does the American media excel at spoiling thier hopefuls? Roddick, Gabby Douglas, Maronney, Ashley Wagner (although she may be actually nice and I heard that she gained more fan after her interview with TSL) and now Gracie.
Absolutely they do.  The "fab" 5, Phelps, other swimmer guy (who got his own show and cannot give a good interview to save his life), the list goes on and on.  And like GG said "It's a fortunate name to have, a lot of headlines to be written about." ...................It's one of the most conceited things I have ever heard her say but it's the truth.  There really is nothing about her that is worth writing about yet the media still finds things to publish.  Like that nonsense of an article during worlds that was literally titled "Gracie Gold skates clean program, in awe of Kim Yu-na."  It wasn't even a great skate -_- Also she was the focus of all articles after 2013 4CC that featured the US ladies even though Christina Gao placed higher than she did.  I'm sorry, I just don't get the hype about her.  She's already 18.  There are so many other skaters who have talent beyond her abilities and reached that point much earlier in life yet the judges mark them equally.  Ok rant over (for now).
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:22 pm

helen91 wrote:

Max Aaron is like a puppy xD  Also GG is a spoiled brat and a lot of other things that I will not discuss here.  I can say that she is fooling a lot of people with that innocent girl act of hers though.  As far as I know she is letting this hype get to her head, (she is her biggest fan after all) and she believes that she deserves better coaching (which clearly isn't the case since it was her old coach who got her this far) but oh well.  I don't see her as being a threat anytime soon, or ever and when she gets higher PCs than Kanako I just have to shake my head.
Do you know her personally? I don't mean anything bad, I'm genuinely curious. I wish I knew at least one elite skater.

As for her fooling a lot of people, I think many skaters are very successful at this. Heck, I personally believe that not even the great Michelle Kwan was as humble and down to earth as she appeared in front of the camera, this is only my opinion. Gracie (I'm rooting for her, beacuse she is the only skater whom USFSA will allow to "dethrone" Ashley) as she said herself has a perfect name for marketing, she's pretty, blond, next door American girl, perfect for endorsment deals. She's already being insanely hyped, imagine if she were to show her true personality...she'd lose a lot of fans and endorsments.

I don't know what to say abot the second half of your post. To treat a coach who has brought you this far, so badly, simply because you believe your own hype and think that suddenly you're entitled to something (in your mind) better... Disappointed There's nothing wrong with changing coaches, skaters do it all the time, but IMO, one should part ways respectfully, especially if you owe your current coach your success and the hype. As for letting the hype get to her head, arrogance is your worst enemy. She should be careful, she just might find herself having a nightmare in Sochi. I hope Frank will sort out this nonsense. Like I said, I really don't like Ashley, so I want Gracie to win Nats in january.

pearlyriver wrote:
Does the American media excel at spoiling thier hopefuls? Roddick, Gabby Douglas, Maronney, Ashley Wagner (although she may be actually nice and I heard that she gained more fan after her interview with TSL) and now Gracie.
I watched the first part of Ashley's TSL interview and to me, (and I'm not saying this because I don't like her) she came across a bit fake. She tried too hard, but the interview was interesting.
Wait Gabby Douglas became spoiled? Though I disagree with her AA win she did seemed nice, but then, what do I know, it might all be a show.

helen91 wrote:
The "fab" 5, Phelps, other swimmer guy (who got his own show and cannot give a good interview to save his life)
ROTFLMAO  You mean Ryan Lochte? I'm still trying to figure it out what the people on E! were smoking when they decided to give this dude his own show. IMO, with this show Ryan completely embarrassed himself. I knew he wasn't the brightest person, but to be this dumb...and he actually thinks that he's being funny. if I were his family I'd be embarrassed out of my mind.

And if i hear the "fab" 5 one more time, I think I'll scream. They won the team gold medal, yeah it was great but come on media, move on already.

helen91 wrote:
There really is nothing about her that is worth writing about yet the media still finds things to publish. Like that nonsense of an article during worlds that was literally titled "Gracie Gold skates clean program, in awe of Kim Yu-na." It wasn't even a great skate -_- Also she was the focus of all articles after 2013 4CC that featured the US ladies even though Christina Gao placed higher than she did. I'm sorry, I just don't get the hype about her. She's already 18. There are so many other skaters who have talent beyond her abilities and reached that point much earlier in life yet the judges mark them equally.
Hm, I thought that Gracie made 1 mistake in her long program in London and if she didn't, than at least she wasn't skating very confident. It's very simple why media loves her, it's about her name, her looks and she can land a huge 3-3, which not many US ladies can.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:37 pm

zarinaballerina wrote:


As for her fooling a lot of people, I think many skaters are very successful at this. Heck, I personally believe that not even the great Michelle Kwan was as humble and down to earth as she appeared in front of the camera, this is only my opinion. Gracie (I'm rooting for her, beacuse she is the only skater whom USFSA will allow to "dethrone" Ashley) as she said herself has a perfect name for marketing, she's pretty, blond, next door American girl, perfect for endorsment deals.  She's already being insanely hyped, imagine if she were to show her true personality...she'd lose a lot of fans and endorsments.

I don't know what to say abot the second half of your post. To treat a coach who has brought you this far, so badly, simply because you believe your own hype and think that suddenly you're entitled to something (in your mind) better... Disappointed There's nothing wrong with changing coaches, skaters do it all the time, but IMO, one should part ways respectfully, especially if you owe your current coach your success and the hype. As for letting the hype get to her head, arrogance is your worst enemy. She should be careful, she just might find herself having a nightmare in Sochi. I hope Frank will sort out this nonsense. Like I said, I really don't like Ashley, so I want Gracie to win Nats in january.

I never buy that Michelle Kwan is humble and down to earth, but at least she has something to boast about. I'm Ok with someone being a little bit arrogant, if he/she has huge talent to back up. What puzzles me is that people on Twitter seem to root for Gracie's decision, saying that it's a good move and it should have been done sooner. It appers that no one took issue with the way she called the quit. She split with her coach out of the blue and didn't even give explanation. But there's no certainty that she will work with Frank long-term. He said that ""I don't know her, and she doesn't know me. I don't know what to expect. Maybe she wouldn't like what I have to say." Frank probably wasn't impressed by Gracie.
I still don't understand why Michelle suddenly split with Frank. Any theories?
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:49 am

pearlyriver wrote:


I never buy that Michelle Kwan is humble and down to earth, but at least she has something to boast about. I'm Ok with someone being a little bit arrogant, if he/she has huge talent to back up. What puzzles me is that people on Twitter seem to root for Gracie's decision, saying that it's a good move and it should have been done sooner. It appers that no one took issue with the way she called the quit. She split with her coach out of the blue and didn't even give explanation. But there's no certainty that she will work with Frank long-term. He said that ""I don't know her, and she doesn't know me. I don't know what to expect. Maybe she wouldn't like what I have to say." Frank probably wasn't impressed by Gracie.
I still don't understand why Michelle suddenly split with Frank. Any theories?
Hm, if Frank wasn't impressed by her, I don't see him working with her, unless Frank wants it to. He is a legend so he can certainly pick and choose. There are speculations that he's going to retire after this season, so I don't know what exactly is the "team's Gold" plan.
Honestly, after everything that I've heard about Gracie, I'm not even surprised anymore with the way she's behaving.Disappointed  I also find the reaction on twitter surprising, if this were any other skater, who would split with this/her coach the way Graie has done it, he/she would get torn apart by twitter users. I honestly hope that she'll get her act together, as for medalling in Sochi (there's speculation on other forums that this was the motivation for the change), while anything is possible at olympics, but for Gracie to medal,one of the top 3 (Mao, Caro, Yuna) would need a major meltdown, and if Adelina actually produces the skate she's capable off, then Gracie's chances for a medal are even more nonexisting. If the tryout with Frank doesn't work out, I wonder what she'll do.scratch  This is why burning down the bridge is almost never a good idea. This entire situation is very weird.

Many figure skating fans believe that the reason for Frank and Michelle split was the money. We will never know though.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:14 am

So you think Adelina has a shot at a medal?But Russia has only 2 spots, hence the upcoming national championship will be a bloodbath. If Adelina messes up, there'll be no redemption for her.
I find it weird that some Youtubers think Alissa Czisny has the potential to medal. I love her, she's such a beautiful skater to watch, but her chance of getting the third spot is lower than Mirai, Christina and Courtney Hicks. Even Samantha Cesario may defeat her. Skaters who miss at least a season seldom make a successful comeback, except for Yuna, since she has strong foundation. I think Kanako has the best shot at a medal outside the top 3. She's more well-rounded than Gracie, and even when her techniques are far from perfect she has pretty solid jumps.

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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:54 am

zarinaballerina wrote:

Wait Gabby Douglas became spoiled? Though I disagree with her AA win she did seemed nice, but then, what do I know, it might all be a show.

ROTFLMAO  You mean Ryan Lochte? I'm still trying to figure it out what the people on E! were smoking when they decided to give this dude his own show. IMO, with this show Ryan completely embarrassed himself. I knew he wasn't the brightest person, but to be this dumb...and he actually thinks that he's being funny. if I were his family I'd be embarrassed out of my mind.

And if i hear the "fab" 5  one more time, I think I'll scream. They won the team gold medal, yeah it was great but come on media, move on already.

I don't mean to say that she's spoilt. I've heard bad things about her but probably they're all BS. At least she's not as annoying as Maronney. But there's going to be a TV biopic about her. Screenwriters are running out of ideas.
Wait, is there such a thing as What WoulD Ryan Lochte do? What dummy would watch this show?
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:06 am

pearlyriver wrote:
So you think Adelina has a shot at a medal?But Russia has only 2 spots, hence the upcoming national championship will be a bloodbath. If Adelina messes up, there'll be no redemption for her.
IMHO, the medals will be awarded to (in random order) Mao, Caro and Yuna. Of course Russian Fed wants a medal for a russian skater (their favourite is Adelina), but I don't see it happening, unless one of the top three has an epic meltdown and Adelina has a skate of her life. However, I do think that Adelina has a better shot at a medal than Gracie, as long as she keeps it together.

pearlyriver wrote:
I don't mean to say that she's spoilt. I've heard bad things about her but probably they're all BS. At least she's not as annoying as Maronney.
Oh, I remember her BS on Oprah about being called a slave or treated as such by other girls.Evil or Very Mad I can't believe I've forgotten about it. According to those in the know, it was a big lie. And don't get me started on Maronney. If any other gymnast would pull that stunt on the podium, the media world wide would tear her apart, but not when it comes to an American athlete.Rolling Eyes 

pearlyriver wrote:
Wait, is there such a thing as What WoulD Ryan Lochte do? What dummy would watch this show?
Yep, there is. And I've managed to survive through 10 minutes, before giving up. What the heck was his management thinking?!

Sorry for the OT.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:44 am

zarinaballerina wrote:

pearlyriver wrote:
I don't mean to say that she's spoilt. I've heard bad things about her but probably they're all BS. At least she's not as annoying as Maronney.
Oh, I remember her BS on Oprah about being called a slave or treated as such by other girls.Evil or Very Mad I can't believe I've forgotten about it. According to those in the know, it was a big lie. And don't get me started on Maronney. If any other gymnast would pull that stunt on the podium, the media world wide would tear her apart, but not when it comes to an American athlete.Rolling Eyes 
Well, I remembered this. Such a huge BS really for Maronney's reaction to be ok to the media and a lot of fans. Yes, her Yurchenko is a beauty and that's all they've kept talking about but I found it amusing she crashed on a Mustafina. Ok... that's pretty bad of me but I just can't help it after all the bashing they did on Vika after the AA finals. IMHO, Vika deserved higher marks for her floor than what they gave her.

Now that is already OT... Can't help it. Worlds is so near. haha.

But as for Gracie, she was hyped too much. Yes, when she's on she delivers the jumps but she needs more than that. A lot of expectations are on her and she's already feeling the pressure and letting the hype get to her. She's still starting out. Haven't lived up to the hype yet, still so much to prove and we have this kind of drama already...
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:35 pm

zarinaballerina wrote:
pearlyriver wrote:
So you think Adelina has a shot at a medal?But Russia has only 2 spots, hence the upcoming national championship will be a bloodbath. If Adelina messes up, there'll be no redemption for her.
IMHO, the medals will be awarded to (in random order) Mao, Caro and Yuna. Of course Russian Fed wants a medal for a russian skater (their favourite is Adelina), but I don't see it happening, unless one of the top three has an epic meltdown and Adelina has a skate of her life. However, I do think that Adelina has a better shot at a medal than Gracie, as long as she keeps it together.

To be honest, does Mao has a chance of scoring 150+ for her LP if she skates clean? Because it's almost certain that Yuna wll score around that (unless she has a meltdown, which is very unlikely).
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:02 am

pearlyriver wrote:
zarinaballerina wrote:
pearlyriver wrote:
So you think Adelina has a shot at a medal?But Russia has only 2 spots, hence the upcoming national championship will be a bloodbath. If Adelina messes up, there'll be no redemption for her.
IMHO, the medals will be awarded to (in random order) Mao, Caro and Yuna. Of course Russian Fed wants a medal for a russian skater (their favourite is Adelina), but I don't see it happening, unless one of the top three has an epic meltdown and Adelina has a skate of her life. However, I do think that Adelina has a better shot at a medal than Gracie, as long as she keeps it together.

To be honest, does Mao has a chance of scoring 150+ for her LP if she skates clean? Because it's almost certain that Yuna wll score around that (unless she has a meltdown, which is very unlikely).
IF Mao skates clean, it will mean that she'll produce an 8 triple program, the first women in history to do that, if I'm not mistaken. IF she achieves this, and still doesn't outscore Yuna's program with "only" one 3-3 and no 3 loop LP, then IMO, ISU will have a very nice scandal on their hands. However, in this scenario, Mao skates a clean LP which with her layout, is a very difficult thing to do.
In a fair judging, Yuna shouldn't win, but then she did receive 150+ in Vancouver for a program with 3 freaking 2A in it.Whirly Rolling Eyes Suspect Disappointed 

Sometimes, I have moments of weakness and wish that Mao would go down the "Yuna route". Do one 3-3, get rid of the jump that you're not comfortable with and just play it safe. But then, this isn't Mao and if she were to do this she wouldn't be satisfied with her self, so I've decided what the heck, it's her last season, she knows what she's doing, she's super human anyway, so if anyone can pull this off, it's Mao, so I'm behind her 100%. Though I'll still be pissed if she misses 3A in her SP.Hell, no!Razz  I prefer 3-3 instead, it means less pressure and in my view, it's easier to do.

I hope she'll have a kick ass season and will achieve what she's training to do; two clean programs in Sochi.cheers Swoon Cheering 
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:46 am

^i think mao deserves to score 150, even more if she skates clean.. i don't think the ISU would allow to have another scandal like in salt lake.. the sport is already losing some fans..

assuming she's clean.. you know no edge call, no under-rotations etc.. and you have the carolina kostner factor as well.. she is not the same nutcase as before.. she's gaining more confidence in her ability to skate clean.. so you know.. anything can happen..

as for gracie.. i think she's feeling the pressure but i'm kinda' sad for her that they need to broadcast that it is only a try-out between her and frank.. what if it's not going to work out? it is not good for her..they should have keep it private..





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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:44 am

zarinaballerina wrote:
Sometimes, I have moments of weakness and wish that Mao would go down the "Yuna route". 
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?41458-Senior-Ladies-FS-2013-2014-Base-Value&p=762497&viewfull=1#post762497

1. Mao Asada: 68.65 (I considered the layout she used at 2013 Worlds and WTT because she has already said that her layout will be almost the same)
2. Courtney Hicks: 62.83 (2013 Glacier Falls with the 3F+3T at the beginning)
3. Gracie Gold: 62.11 (2013 Skate Milwaukee with the 2A+3T in the second half)
4. Elena Radionova: 61.90
5. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva: 61.61 (she never usually changes her layout, I considered the 2A+3T in the second half as she did last season; I considered a level3 LSp)
6. Zijun Li: 61.20
7. Satoko Miyahara: 61.12
8. Akiko Suzuki: 60.85 (I considered the one she attempted at her summer competition, but she could add a second loop instead of the salchow)
9. Ashley Wagner: 60.03 (she moved the 3Lz to the second half and added the 3Lo+2A last season and I think that she'll keep these layout b/c they worked well)
10. Anna Pogorilaya: 60.02 (as suggested by AlexRus, adding the 2 points of the ChSq to her Junior Worlds BV, but she could change her layout for her Senior debut)
11. Alena Leonova: 59.35 (she almost never changed her layout during these last years except for the spins, so I thought that I could already consider it)
12. Kexin Zhang: 59.33
13. Samantha Cesario: 59.16
14. Kiira Korpi: 58.91 (I considered her injury-free layout, with lutz and flip)
15. Mirai Nagasu: 58.71 (2013 Glacier Falls)
16. Yu-Na Kim: 58.22 (last year's layout, that won't probably change, with a level 3 LSp)
17. Kaetlyn Osmons: 57.05 (I considered the 3F+2T in the first half as last season)
18. Caroline Zhang: 56.72 (I added her because her layout never changed during the last couple of years)
19. Elene Gedevanishvili: 50.70 (I calculated this basing on what she attempted in the video posted in the programs thread, but there isn't any 3-jumps combo so it may become slightly higher with +1.3/1.43 of a 2T or +1.8/1.98 of a 2Lo)

I don't think Mao would want to be #17 in the world rank of prog's difficulties (a.k.a Base Value) in the Olympic season. Or any season. Cheering

Besides, junior Medvedeva, Edmunds and Sakhanovich already challenged more difficult progs in JGP-2013 than the current WC. One more scandal a la Evan is  simply unaccetable for the future of this sport.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:44 am

^ you still have to execute all those jumps.. Wink and do it properly..

to be fair yuna executed all her jumps and her gorgeous 3lutz-3toe and went clean..while others made mistakes..3lutz-3toe is not easy.. because if it is.. everyone would have been consistent with this combo..majority of ladies today, junior (not to mention the growth spurt problem) or senior has their own problem with the "lutz"..

besides i think kostner would have won if she was clean imo..

because it's easy to say on paper that oh i have the most difficult planned jumps (based value).. but skater c did not execute it.. then that's the problem..Wink

remember you have some other factors involved like.. edge calls and under-rotations and other inconsistencies..

and to be fair to evan.. he did his job.. the only problem was that he didn't have the quad..i still think he was the rightful winner.. and i don't think it was even close so scandalous compared to salt lake..

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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:05 am

^ BV is not planned jumps. It's performed jumps. Underotations is also included in BV, i.e. if the jump is ur, the base value is lower. The execution and quality of elements (skated 'clean') is not always fairly reflected in GOE, like giving +3 GOE for standstill landings on jumps and setting the so-called "world record" (Chan). I mean "properly executed" on paper doesn't necessary mean properly execusted in reality. 3Z-3T is a rather common combo in junior skaters, and often well perfomed. While 3A- is not. But that's besides the point. Sport has always been about risk and achievements. I find it rather embarrasing that the OC and WC challenges the prog of #16 (!) difficulty in world ranking. You can make it simple and you skate clean. That's easy. If you still win when others present more challenging and well-performed progs, then you are Evan. I think that was the possible future situation that zarinaballerina called "very nice scandal".
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:15 am

what i'm trying to say is if mao executed all those jumps without edge calls (like for example in her lutz) and doesn't under-rotated her 3A.. then she deserves to score even more than 150+..

well.. plushy is always been one of the best jumpers in history.. his quad is amazing.. the quality of 3A like Ito for me is standard barrier.. but if you're not inconsistent with the jump and you have history of under-rotations and who knows.. landed with your 2 feet or fall.. then that's part of skating..

i don't want to compare juniors and seniors with their 3z-3t.. because the quality is different.. but that's my opinion ..

it's easy to say that i want to this and that.. but you still have to execute it.. at the end of the day you will still skate.. if you fall in your as* 4 times like chan and managed to win then obviously there's a scandal.. yuna never fall in her as* 4 times but if she is.. then obviously she should not win and not even close to any of her scores..

i don't want to have another conspiracy theory into it.. after all it will be held in russia..
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:26 am

Evan too didn't fall on his as* 4 times. Yet his win "simple, safe, clean" didn't contribute in promoting the populairty of this sport due to the same reason- he failed 'risk and achievement' demand. Same here with Yuna, if she chooses to follow the safe route in Oly like she did in WC-2013, i.e. Evan's route.

Not sure what "be held in Russia" has anything to do with that.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:57 am

let`s talk wrote:
Evan too didn't fall on his as* 4 times. Yet his win "simple, safe, clean" didn't contribute in promoting the populairty of this sport due to the same reason- he failed 'risk and achievement' demand. Same here with Yuna, if she chooses to follow the safe route in Oly like she did in WC-2013, i.e. Evan's route.

Not sure what "be held in Russia" has anything to do with that.  
let's see.. if someone falls like chan 4 times.. and there's a skater skated the lights out but he doesn't have the quad like chan.. then who deserves to win? chan? or the skater who skated the lights out with out the quad?

what if skater A's program is harder.. harder transitions.. more demanding step sequences.. and managed to skate the lights out without the 3A but she has the 3lutz-3toe and did not make mistakes while skater B who has all the 8 triples but managed only to execute 2 triple jumps.. and made some mistakes.. who do you think deserves to win?

like what i said who knows who will bring her/his A game in Sochi.. it's easy to say that this skater A or B will do this and that.. but it's a different story when that skater will finally hit on the ice..

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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:01 am

polly10 wrote:
^ you still have to execute all those jumps.. Wink and do it properly..

to be fair yuna executed all her jumps and her gorgeous 3lutz-3toe and went clean..while others made mistakes.. i think kostner would have won if she was clean imo..

because it's easy to say on paper that oh i have the most difficult planned jumps (based value).. but skater c did not execute it.. then that's the problem..Wink 

remember you have some other factors involved like.. edge calls and under-rotations and other inconsistencies..
Absolutely, but in fact you can suddenly become extremely strict about edges and ur or convinietly overlook them depending on whether you want a particular skater to win. And don't get me even started on GOE.

There is no way I can prove this, but it is my feeling that there was a very strong anti-Mao and pro-Yuna politicking since around 2008 till Vancouver.

Yes Mao flutzes and has some ur issues and Yuna's jumps are arguably of better quality overall, but Yuna's quite obvious lip in her earlier years was overlooked so many times I couldn't believe my eyes.
(As were her lines, steps, extension etc. where Mao is definitely superior but the scores never reflected that).

Then you have 2013 when the judges somehow decided that Mao was not that bad afteral and started giving her quite good scores for performaces they would have totally torn her apart for in the past.

Look at the Worlds 2013 SP for example. It was so obvious they wanted Mao (or Carolina) to win over Yuna, that suddenly they hammered Yuna for her lip while they turned a blind eye to Carolina's severely URed combo that she fell on and scored Mao quite generously for a rather flawed SP.

I would almost bet that should the very same skates be judged today, Yuna's SP flip would mysteriously turn textbook again, since she has already managed to gain her reputation back.

Too bad Mao kinda blew it at Worlds, cause had she continued in her upward trajectory, she would be getting 140+ scores for cleanish skates in no time, IMHO.
(Something she would never have got pre Vancouver regardless of how clean she would have skated).

Yes, all this is but a speculation but this how I have been feeling about the judging for a long time.

I think both Mao and Yuna are excellent skaters with different strengths and weaknesses who should be practically on the same level if both skate close to clean.

If Yuna skates like she did at Vancouver or at this year's Worlds hats off to her.

However, I still cannot forget the times when Mao was skating practically clean (no visible glaring errors) with extremely challenging content and nobody cared.
Worlds 2010, GPF 2007, 4CC 2008 LPs etc.
(see Yuna's Worlds 10 LP or 2007 GPF LP actual performances and scores for comparison Rolling Eyes ).  

The fact Mao was never able to get even close to the scores Yuna was getting for her best skates is simply a travesty to me!

No one's gonna persuade me that for example Mao's practically clean Worlds 10 LP with 2 clean freakin' 3As (were it not for Amano the jerk) is more than 20 points inferior to Yuna's clean Vancouver LP with 3 2A.

And no UR, edge or GOE nitpicking can justify that, IMHO.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:14 am

^no doubt about that.. there's no question that mao should have won the 2010 worlds LP.. i think amano is really strict.. i think that's always been his reputation.. he's always been very consistent of being strict.. lol..

well ISU got rid of 3 double axels in the LP.. right? and 3A is now being valued more in the SP..what mao needs to do is just perform it..

i think yuna's flip was fixed by her current coaches.. as you can see from this year's worlds she's more comfortable with that jump.. minus the edge call in the sp..

as for carolina.. well.. i love her skating.. and she has beautiful edges on the ice.. i think she's bringing her lutz and flip unlike when she won her world title..

at the end of the day.. it really depends who will skate the lights out in sochi..

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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:12 pm

polly10 wrote:
let`s talk wrote:
Evan too didn't fall on his as* 4 times. Yet his win "simple, safe, clean" didn't contribute in promoting the populairty of this sport due to the same reason- he failed 'risk and achievement' demand. Same here with Yuna, if she chooses to follow the safe route in Oly like she did in WC-2013, i.e. Evan's route.

Not sure what "be held in Russia" has anything to do with that.  
let's see.. if someone falls like chan 4 times.. and there's a skater skated the lights out but he doesn't have the quad like chan.. then who deserves to win? chan? or the skater who skated the lights out with out the quad?

what if skater A's program is harder.. harder transitions.. more demanding step sequences.. and managed to skate the lights out without the 3A but she has the 3lutz-3toe and did not make mistakes while skater B who has all the 8 triples but managed only to execute 2 triple jumps.. and made some mistakes.. who do you think deserves to win?
The situations you described never happened. Chan is not the only quad jumper in Men's field like you make it sound. Others too performed quads, skate the light, and still losing to him with his multiple falls. The 3Z-3T is not that unusal in the modern Ladies' field. Your own argument can be put as "managed to skate the lights out without the 3lutz-3toe but she has the 3A". The skater A has the same level of steps as skater B, so it's not harder. The skater A had 4 different triples (got rid of uncomfortable jumps, "safe and clean" method in a la Evan) and performed 6 of them. The skater B had 6 different triples and perfomed 7 of them. In reality. So I have no idea where your prototypes of the skaters A and B are coming from.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:08 am

polly10 wrote:

what if skater A's program is harder.. harder transitions.. more demanding step sequences.. and managed to skate the lights out without the 3A but she has the 3lutz-3toe and did not make mistakes while skater B who has all the 8 triples but managed only to execute 2 triple jumps.. and made some mistakes.. who do you think deserves to win?

like what i said who knows who will bring her/his A game in Sochi.. it's easy to say that this skater A or B will do this and that.. but it's a different story when that skater will finally hit on the ice..  

If you mean skater A as Yuna and skater B as Mao, then no way are Yuna's step sequences and transitions better than Mao. Mao's footwork is to die for (Nicky Slater approved) and her spiral and spins are almost picture pecfect (they weren't in 2013 because she has back injuries). If you watch slow motion of their performances, it's pretty obvious that Mao has better footwork. Yuna's footwork has been the same for a long time, especially her transition after jumps always look the same. This argument is similar to whether Cheng Fei deserved the bronze for vault at Beijing or Maronney the silver at London. They took more risks , hence they should be rewarded more for their bravery.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:57 am

polly10 wrote:
as for gracie.. i think she's feeling the pressure but i'm kinda' sad for her that they need to broadcast that it is only a try-out between her and frank.. what if it's not going to work out? it is not good for her..they should have keep it private..
Completely agree. I think the tryout is because Frank (according to posts at FSU and Goldenskate) wasn't eager to work with Gracie, apparently it took quite a few phone calls from USFSA, to make Frank agree on tryout. Gracie herself isn't sure what the heck she wants. I mean not wanting to relocate to Cali full time, saying that IF she'll work with Frank than her twin sis is also part of the deal since they come in package...WhirlyROTFLMAO   I don't know what the heck is going on with her, but this is Frank "the legend" Carroll that we're talking about. If he doesn't want to work with her sis, he isn't going to work with her end of story, no matter what Miss Gold thinks. Besides, Frank sounds anything but enthusiastic about this whole mess.
I agree with those who say that all the hype has gone into her and/or her family's head and she/they believe that she has a shot at a medal. I still can't believe Gracie and her team took on the crap that Marina has choreographed.
As for making it public, a big thanx for this also goes to TSL.

let's talk wrote:
16. Yu-Na Kim: 58.22 (last year's layout, that won't probably change, with a level 3 LSp)
Yes, her base value is very low, but she executed those jumps cleanly (and was overscored in GOE), and look what being clean has done to her PCS. Mao can have a base value of 90 points, it won't do her any good if she UR's her jumps, or falls on them.

polly10 wrote:
and to be fair to evan.. he did his job.. the only problem was that he didn't have the quad..i still think he was the rightful winner.. and i don't think it was even close so scandalous compared to salt lake..
The other problem Evan had, was that his 3A looked like a salchow it was that badly prerotated, however, for some reason, the judges chose to ignore this at both 2009 worlds and at every competition up to Vancouver, so no Evan didn't do his job. He should've been dinged for his 3A, not to mention, only God knows where those PCS came from. He didn't deserve them, IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:23 am

zarinaballerina wrote:


polly10 wrote:
and to be fair to evan.. he did his job.. the only problem was that he didn't have the quad..i still think he was the rightful winner.. and i don't think it was even close so scandalous compared to salt lake..
The other problem Evan had, was that his 3A looked like a salchow it was that badly prerotated, however, for some reason, the judges chose to ignore this at both 2009 worlds and at every competition up to Vancouver, so no Evan didn't do his job. He should've been dinged for his 3A, not to mention, only God knows where those PCS came from. He didn't deserve them, IMO.
I feel disappointed watching Evan's FSperformance at Vancouver. I had expected more from a gold-winning program. The choreograph was mediocre (even though I love the music), he didn't skate full out and there was nothing to write home about the step sequences. It was Daisuke who brought the house down (the crowd were so crazy about him and it's Canada, not Japan).

As for Gracie, what was she thinking? She hasn't got the reputation to demand Frank to train her sister. Even she may not impress him.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-2014 season programs    Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:55 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZIy7CBAr8w (Volosozhar/Trankov SP)
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