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 Trophee Eric Bompard 2013

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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:05 pm

Iceriver wrote:
Btw, I guess this is not the best thread to ask this but I'm curious to know how Mao, Yuna and Caro look live. Have any of you seen them live? I suppose so...and I'm sure that Let`s talk has Wink
Yuna's feet look like a commoner's busy housewife's mess- too much moves, strokes here, there, that your eyes get tired and bored quite soon. She needs 5 strokes when Mao/Caro needs 2. The myph about speed quite often disappears when you see events live, and it's true not about Yuna only, but Chan, Davis/White as well, for example. As well as about the size of jumps. Caro has the biggest lutz when she hits it. It actually HUGE! Her skating is quite elegant but it does look too insecury and still a little wooden to my eye. Mao is the lightest. She flies across the eyes like one flow with no visibe efforts.
It's even more interesting to see skaters off- ice. ...geek 
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:22 pm

let`s talk wrote:
Iceriver wrote:
Btw, I guess this is not the best thread to ask this but I'm curious to know how Mao, Yuna and Caro look live. Have any of you seen them live? I suppose so...and I'm sure that Let`s talk has Wink

Yuna's feet look like a commoner's busy housewife's mess- too much moves, strokes here, there, that your eyes get tired and bored quite soon. She needs 5 strokes when Mao/Caro needs 2. The myph about speed quite often disappears when you see events live, and it's true not about Yuna only, but Chan, Davis/White as well, for example. As well as about the size of jumps. Caro has the biggest lutz when she hits it. It actually HUGE! Her skating is quite elegant but it does look too insecury and still a little wooden to my eye. Mao is the lightest. She flies across the eyes like one flow with no visibe efforts.
It's even more interesting to see skaters off- ice. ...geek   

Speaking of strokes, do you think if Mao add 1-2 more strokes before going into a jump, would it diminish her UR? Or is her UR due to over thinking/nerves? And what do you mean about the myth about speed...live? Do you mean the person is not as fast live or are they faster?
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:06 am

I'm not sure but I think that let`s talk means that some people tend to exaggerate the fact that some skaters are much faster than others and then when you see them live you realize that the difference is not so big...that's what I understand by "the myth about speed". For example, I found Chan a fast skater when I saw him live but not soooooooo fast as some people often claim. He keeps really good speed throughout the program but reading comments by certain people would make you think that other skaters walk on the ice while he flies and that's not the case. Can't say anything about Yuna or D/W as I've never seen them live.
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:50 am

Iceriver wrote:
I'm not sure but I think that let`s talk means that some people tend to exaggerate the fact that some skaters are much faster than others and then when you see them live you realize that the difference is not so big...that's what I understand by "the myth about speed". For example, I found Chan a fast skater when I saw him live but not soooooooo fast as some people often claim. He keeps really good speed throughout the program but reading comments by certain people would make you think that other skaters walk on the ice while he flies and that's not the case. Can't say anything about Yuna or D/W as I've never seen them live.
Thanks iceriver. I understand what you mean.
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:44 am

shar wrote:
Iceriver wrote:
Thanks iceriver. I understand what you mean.
Very Happy 

Not sure if this is what Let`s talk meant, though...Anyway I got that impression at TEB.
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:12 am

let`s talk wrote:
Yuna's feet look like a commoner's busy housewife's mess- too much moves, strokes here, there, that your eyes get tired and bored quite soon. She needs 5 strokes when Mao/Caro needs 2. The myph about speed quite often disappears when you see events live, and it's true not about Yuna only, but Chan, Davis/White as well, for example. As well as about the size of jumps. Caro has the biggest lutz when she hits it. It actually HUGE! Her skating is quite elegant but it does look too insecury and still a little wooden to my eye. Mao is the lightest. She flies across the eyes like one flow with no visibe efforts.
It's even more interesting to see skaters off- ice. ...geek   
Oh come on let's talk, don't stop here, do elaborate. Wink Yep! Very Happy  I love hearing about skaters off the ice, some personalities are so different, from those that we see on the ice.

Maybe all those moves and strokes than Yuna does, are actually to hide/destract from her weakness, which IMO are her SS. I read somewhere that many strokes= not so good SS. I don't know whether this is true, because my knowledge about SS isn't good, but I have noticed this about Yuna as well. She has speed, but she needs a lot of stroking to generate it.
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:16 am

zarinaballerina wrote:
let`s talk wrote:
Yuna's feet look like a commoner's busy housewife's mess- too much moves, strokes here, there, that your eyes get tired and bored quite soon. She needs 5 strokes when Mao/Caro needs 2. The myph about speed quite often disappears when you see events live, and it's true not about Yuna only, but Chan, Davis/White as well, for example. As well as about the size of jumps. Caro has the biggest lutz when she hits it. It actually HUGE! Her skating is quite elegant but it does look too insecury and still a little wooden to my eye. Mao is the lightest. She flies across the eyes like one flow with no visibe efforts.
It's even more interesting to see skaters off- ice. ...geek   
Oh come on let's talk, don't stop here, do elaborate. Wink Yep! Very Happy  I love hearing about skaters off the ice, some personalities are so different, from those that we see on the ice.

Maybe all those moves and strokes than Yuna does, are actually to hide/destract from her weakness, which IMO are her SS. I read somewhere  that many strokes= not so good SS. I don't know whether this is true, because my knowledge about SS isn't good, but I have noticed this about Yuna as well. She has speed, but she needs a lot of stroking to generate it.
SS? Is that step sequences
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:24 am

I think it's Skating Skills
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:32 am

shar wrote:
zarinaballerina wrote:
let`s talk wrote:
Yuna's feet look like a commoner's busy housewife's mess- too much moves, strokes here, there, that your eyes get tired and bored quite soon. She needs 5 strokes when Mao/Caro needs 2. The myph about speed quite often disappears when you see events live, and it's true not about Yuna only, but Chan, Davis/White as well, for example. As well as about the size of jumps. Caro has the biggest lutz when she hits it. It actually HUGE! Her skating is quite elegant but it does look too insecury and still a little wooden to my eye. Mao is the lightest. She flies across the eyes like one flow with no visibe efforts.
It's even more interesting to see skaters off- ice. ...geek   
Oh come on let's talk, don't stop here, do elaborate. Wink Yep! Very Happy  I love hearing about skaters off the ice, some personalities are so different, from those that we see on the ice.

Maybe all those moves and strokes than Yuna does, are actually to hide/destract from her weakness, which IMO are her SS. I read somewhere  that many strokes= not so good SS. I don't know whether this is true, because my knowledge about SS isn't good, but I have noticed this about Yuna as well. She has speed, but she needs a lot of stroking to generate it.
SS? Is that step sequences
SS= skating skills
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:03 am

zarinaballerina wrote:
shar wrote:
zarinaballerina wrote:


Maybe all those moves and strokes than Yuna does, are actually to hide/destract from her weakness, which IMO are her SS. I read somewhere  that many strokes= not so good SS. I don't know whether this is true, because my knowledge about SS isn't good, but I have noticed this about Yuna as well. She has speed, but she needs a lot of stroking to generate it.
SS? Is that step sequences
SS= skating skills
Wow, then Yuna deserves an Oscar for being able to hide her weakness so deftly.Worship 

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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:31 am

zarinaballerina wrote:

Maybe all those moves and strokes than Yuna does, are actually to hide/destract from her weakness, which IMO are her SS. I read somewhere  that many strokes= not so good SS. I don't know whether this is true, because my knowledge about SS isn't good, but I have noticed this about Yuna as well. She has speed, but she needs a lot of stroking to generate it.
And don't forget transitions! More crossovers = less transitions. Yet, Yuna gets 9s and 10s for Transitions and Skating Skills Rolling Eyes Neutral Neutral 

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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:57 am

ilovethai wrote:
zarinaballerina wrote:

Maybe all those moves and strokes than Yuna does, are actually to hide/destract from her weakness, which IMO are her SS. I read somewhere  that many strokes= not so good SS. I don't know whether this is true, because my knowledge about SS isn't good, but I have noticed this about Yuna as well. She has speed, but she needs a lot of stroking to generate it.
And don't forget transitions! More crossovers = less transitions. Yet, Yuna gets 9s and 10s for Transitions and Skating Skills Rolling Eyes Neutral Neutral 
I don't know about transitions and skating skills but to my uneducated eyes, Yuna often needs to do a quite a lot of strokes or crossovers (more than Mao for sure), so would that mean less points for transitions and SS ?Question 

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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:18 am

pearlyriver wrote:
ilovethai wrote:
zarinaballerina wrote:

Maybe all those moves and strokes than Yuna does, are actually to hide/destract from her weakness, which IMO are her SS. I read somewhere  that many strokes= not so good SS. I don't know whether this is true, because my knowledge about SS isn't good, but I have noticed this about Yuna as well. She has speed, but she needs a lot of stroking to generate it.
And don't forget transitions! More crossovers = less transitions. Yet, Yuna gets 9s and 10s for Transitions and Skating Skills Rolling Eyes Neutral Neutral 
I don't know about transitions and skating skills but to my uneducated eyes, Yuna often needs to do a quite a lot of strokes or crossovers (more than Mao for sure), so would that mean less points for transitions and SS ?Question 
Absoluetly, it's why non Yuna fans are always pissed at her scores. Make no mistake, IMO, all of her titles were fair (unlike Chan's), however her scores weren't. You can't get 9s and 10s for SS and TR, when you're having that many cross overs, yet Yuna does it all the time.

pearlyriver wrote:
Wow, then Yuna deserves an Oscar for being able to hide her weakness so deftly Worship 
lol! 
Actually, in her case, the judges turn a blind eye on the overall quality of her skating and concentrate on her jumps and overacting instead. Disappointed 
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:51 am

shar wrote:

Speaking of strokes, do you think if Mao add 1-2 more strokes before going into a jump, would it diminish her UR? Or is her UR due to over thinking/nerves? And what do you mean about the myth about speed...live? Do you mean the person is not as fast live or are they faster?
This is just my personal opinion I got after seeing Mao live but no, I don't think so.
She can generate more than enough speed as it is, but she needs to get the timing right
and it seems she is not able to control her take off well enough when she approaches the jump with too much speed.

As I've mentioned in my report from NHK, it seemed to me she is able land a solid fully-rotated triple practically from a stand-still.

I think her UR problems just like Mirai's are rather psychological.
Mirai was landing mostly clean jumps left and right during the warm-up but then during the actual competition you could see that there was that slight moment of hesitation right before the jump, which caused her to take off maybe just a millisecond later than she normaly would have, and then she simply didn't have enough time in the air to finish the rotation as the trajectory of the jump was off.

Same with Mao. While I think her jumps even at the competition were pretty solid, they looked even better during the warm-up.
It's not a problem of not getting enough speed going into the jump, IMHO, but rather getting just a little bit tight right before the take off, which takes away some of the power she needs to complete the jump cleanly.
It's like she focuses so hard to get it right that she sometimes overthinks the jump, as you said, and misses the ideal take off moment,
either by taking off a little too early which probably leads to pops or a little late -> UR.

Unlike Mirai, however, Mao often still somehow manages to complete the rotation even if she takes off a little later than ideal.
As Shizuka mentioned in Mao's newest book, she really has an amazing ability to correct the jump while in the air,
which on one hand is a very good skill to have, on the other, however, it makes any changes to her jumping technique all the more difficult.
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:17 pm

Iceriver wrote:
I'm not sure but I think that let`s talk means that some people tend to exaggerate the fact that some skaters are much faster than others and then when you see them live you realize that the difference is not so big...that's what I understand by "the myth about speed". For example, I found Chan a fast skater when I saw him live but not soooooooo fast as some people often claim. He keeps really good speed throughout the program but reading comments by certain people would make you think that other skaters walk on the ice while he flies and that's not the case. Can't say anything about Yuna or D/W as I've never seen them live.
Thanks for answering for me. Chan now is actually even faster then he was in Aranjuez, and yet "specilists" shouted all around how much faster he was than everyone else. At TEB there was no much of compariosn for you. Plu skates way more faster than Chan, Dai is smoothing on the ice, as if it's melted butter and his blages are a knive. Chan's SS are also part of myph, his blades are shaky, as if looking for the ballance on each turn, Han Yan is more secury on this point and Kozuka's baldes are super refined.

All those myphs about speed, SS. etc. comes either due to honest mistake, like in case of Davis/White, who are compared with V/M and therefore look faster, when in fact they are much slower than Russians I/K, for example. But in most cases the myphs (Chan, Yuna) are results of propaganda and politiking caused by a trivial reason that the majority of the audinece can't attend the events live.
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PostSubject: Re: Trophee Eric Bompard 2013   Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:40 am

let`s talk wrote:
Iceriver wrote:
I'm not sure but I think that let`s talk means that some people tend to exaggerate the fact that some skaters are much faster than others and then when you see them live you realize that the difference is not so big...that's what I understand by "the myth about speed". For example, I found Chan a fast skater when I saw him live but not soooooooo fast as some people often claim. He keeps really good speed throughout the program but reading comments by certain people would make you think that other skaters walk on the ice while he flies and that's not the case. Can't say anything about Yuna or D/W as I've never seen them live.
Thanks for answering for me. Chan now is actually even faster then he was in Aranjuez, and yet "specilists" shouted all around how much faster he was than everyone else. At TEB there was no much of compariosn for you. Plu skates way more faster than Chan, Dai is smoothing on the ice, as if it's melted butter and his blages are a knive. Chan's SS are also part of myph, his blades are shaky, as if looking for the ballance on each turn, Han Yan is more secury on this point and Kozuka's baldes are super refined.

All those myphs about speed, SS. etc. comes either due to honest mistake, like in case of Davis/White, who are compared with V/M and therefore look faster, when in fact they are much slower than Russians I/K, for example. But in most cases the myphs (Chan, Yuna) are results of propaganda and politiking caused by a trivial reason that the majority of the audinece can't attend the events live.


THIS!
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