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zarinaballerina
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:30 am

pearlyriver wrote:


Please don't hate me, but I don't remember what Ashley has been skating to. The only program I remember is Black Swan, but it was due to the fact that her arm movement looked like spasm and she was nothing like a swan I pictured in my head. i don't like Ashley personality-wise, or to be more precise, the persona she presents in public. She strikes me as that deceptively sweet and nice girl at high school who pleases every one but she would backstab me when I didn't notice. Sorry, can't help thinking that. I'm aware that personality is not part of scoring. Gracie is not an angel either, considering what she's been babbering on the television but at least I enjoyed her pros this season (I can't believe I'm saying this, but she has improved a lot since working with Frank).  

 ROTFLMAO  I hate that swan program, that was not a swan, and surprisingly, that arm spasm thing she did during the spiral is what everyone love about it. Apparently it mimicked the swan and went so well with the music.  Whirly  Obviously these people have never seen a ballet.

I'm totaly with you on her personality. Again, everyone loves her TSL interview, she has such a dorky, sweet, you name it...personality. To me it looks staged and screamed fake. And I'm not saying this because I can't stand her, though I really can't, but it's how I perceive her. Even during her programs, she is soooo fake.
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:58 am

I might be the minority here but I don't have a problem with the USFA's team selection.

I'm very happy they put Ashley on the team despite her off-podium finish.
She totally deserves this "special" treatment! She has been a serious contender for several years, posing a threat even to Mao on her weaker days, and while there is nothing particularly WOW about her skating, she's been very solid and consistent.

I also don't remember her being anything but classy in her interviews and not simply in the politically-correct-at-all-cost way.
She knows how to voice her opinions (not just the on the topic of LGBT) and I applaud her for that.

Last but not least, I LOVED her Black Swan program and thought she did a fabulous job with that music despite not being a typical ballerina in the first place.
Her arm movements, particularly in her spiral sequence, were perfectly in tune with the music and made for one of the most memorable spirals for me.

I still wouldn't call myself an Ashley fan but I grew to respect her very much in several regards.

Gracie simply got the job done and though I still don't find anything remotedly interesting in her skating (not even her 3-3s that are too wild with not enough control for my taste), she has undisputedly earned her spot.

I am sad for Mirai for not making the team after finally having a really good skate at Nats but I can also understand why the US Federation decided to give the spot to Polina.
Mirai has been a mess for a while now and some had even predicted that she would/should retire before this season.
Although she eventually managed to podium at the GP series, she wasn't able to medal at a Senior B competition and her result at NHK was pretty disastrous.
Taking in consideration her work ethics (or lack there off) rumours and the number of times she let down the hopes of those who believed she would be next big thing in US figure skating, it's no wonder, really.
The most frustrating thing was that everybody knew she had all the talent in the world but wasn't able to use it to her advantage.

As for Polina, I don't necessarilly think it is a good idea to send an inexperienced junior to the Olympics but I can see the reasons for it mentioned by bekalc, for example.
She hasn't won any big titles yet but she has been doing very well this season and, unlike Mirai, hasn't done anything to ruin her reputation either.
Of course, it may very well happen at the Olympics but that's a risk with any of the other girls as well.

Personally, I would be ok with either Polina or Mirai going and I'm happy I'm not the one to decide on this since a case could be made for either of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:56 pm

Bobrova and Soloviev are going back to their FS from last season. I like this idea, love this dance!  sunny 
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:11 pm

polosatik wrote:
Bobrova and Soloviev are going back to their FS from last season. I like this idea, love this dance!  sunny 

This is great news!  Confetti  I really did not like the second part of their FD this year, however, had they stuck to Vivaldi only, IMO, it would've been a masterpiece.

So many skaters are changing their programs so close to oly's. Has this happened before?

kawaiimao wrote:
I am sad for Mirai for not making the team after finally having a really good skate at Nats but I can also understand why the US Federation decided to give the spot to Polina.

While I can see the reason to send Ashley to Sochi, I can't and don't understand how could they snub Mirai twice and send Ashley a 4th place finisher (i don't care what her body of work is, she chocked at Nats which used to be the deciding factor for being named on the team) to worlds as well. I mean, there has to be a limit at how many times she is going to be gifted. She already got Olympics, while a third placed skater got snubbed from both Oly's and worlds. I'm sorry, but this isn't fair, especially considering that in both, men and pairs they are sending the third placed skaters to Tokyo. This really smells, IMO. Some are even pulling a race card, as the reason why Mirai wasn't named to world team either.
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:55 pm

polosatik wrote:
Bobrova and Soloviev are going back to their FS from last season. I like this idea, love this dance!  sunny 

Great idea, bad timing. Should have got the memo after Cup of China - the program is not working. I am not sure performing it for the first time after almost a year at Sochi is the best idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:13 pm

zarinaballerina wrote:
pearlyriver wrote:


Please don't hate me, but I don't remember what Ashley has been skating to. The only program I remember is Black Swan, but it was due to the fact that her arm movement looked like spasm and she was nothing like a swan I pictured in my head. i don't like Ashley personality-wise, or to be more precise, the persona she presents in public. She strikes me as that deceptively sweet and nice girl at high school who pleases every one but she would backstab me when I didn't notice. Sorry, can't help thinking that. I'm aware that personality is not part of scoring. Gracie is not an angel either, considering what she's been babbering on the television but at least I enjoyed her pros this season (I can't believe I'm saying this, but she has improved a lot since working with Frank).  

 ROTFLMAO  I hate that swan program, that was not a swan, and surprisingly, that arm spasm thing she did during the spiral is what everyone love about it. Apparently it mimicked the swan and went so well with the music.  Whirly  Obviously these people have never seen a ballet.

I'm totaly with you on her personality. Again, everyone loves her TSL interview, she has such a dorky, sweet, you name it...personality. To me it looks staged and screamed fake. And I'm not saying this because I can't stand her, though I really can't, but it's how I perceive her. Even during her programs, she is soooo fake.
zarinaballerina & pearlyriver : Y'all have never seen the movie Black Swan have you?

In the movie, the main character, Nina, a ballet dancer, suffers a mental illness and goes insane. The sharp arm movements in the spiral is based on the scenes in the movie where Nina goes through a transformation from a sweet, shy girl to a crazy, violent nymphomaniac.

That's why everyone (including me) loved it. Especially because the arm movements was timed well with the song "Perfection" (which was the song used in the climax of the movie, when Nina realizes she just killed herself). She wasn't portraying a graceful, balletic swan like you guys thought. She was portraying a delusional person.

Regarding her personality, she was not being fake. She was being herself. She has a candid, refreshingly blunt persona and that's why the figure skating world nicknamed Ashley "Diva Wagner". Not everyone has a softspoken personality like Mao or a boring, flat, PC one like most figure skaters.

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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:08 pm

ilovethai wrote:

zarinaballerina & pearlyriver : Y'all have never seen the movie Black Swan have you?

Regarding her personality, she was not being fake. She was being herself. She has a candid, refreshingly blunt persona and that's why the figure skating world nicknamed Ashley "Diva Wagner". Not everyone has a softspoken personality like Mao or a boring, flat, PC one like most figure skaters.

Actually I have seen it twice. The first time I was more into ballet part and wasn't paying that much atention to the story, so I went to see it the second time, to understand what the heck was that about. I liked the movie, generally, I'm not a big fan of Natalie, but I liked her in this one.

And I absolutely love the "Perfection" piece. it's my favourite music in Swan Lake (alongside the Black Swan pas de deux) and I've always wondered how it would sound with a bigger orchestra than the one we get in the theatre. And with a bit of a Mansell touch, it's fabulous.  Dance  Swoon 

Everyone has a different taste, to you the arm movement during the spiral was great, to me it looked ugly. The same goes  for perceiving people. To you, she is a refreshing fun person, to me she's trying too hard, therefor I perceive her as fake. There's something about her, that's always bothered me. Each to it's own, I suppose.
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:14 pm

I actually liked her Black Swan program, and believe me I've seen Swan Lake many times, three of them live when the Moscow ballet came here to Barcelona, so it's not that I'm completely ignorant of how a ballet should be interpreted (although I'm very far from being an expert, don't get me wrong, I'm sure some of our Russian members are much more knowledgeable).

Since Ashley is not a balletic skater, she decided to attack the music from another perspective (in fact, as you have all said, she was portraying Nina and not Odile). I'm not a fan of Ashley but I appreciate those athletes who (like her) know what their strengths and weaknesses are and have the ability to make their strongest points shine so as to hide those aspects in which they are not as good. Nobody is perfect, so you have to fight with the weapons you have and that's what Ashley did, so I have nothing to say against her.

BTW, this is off topic but...have any of you watched the film Perfect Blue? It's an anime by the director Satoshi Kon  (who sadly passed away 3 years ago at the age of 47) which inspired Darren Aronofsky when he wrote the plot for Black Swan. In fact, Aronofsky bought the rights of that film and, although the plot is different (Perfect Blue has nothing to do with ballet) many scenes and psychological aspects of the main character are similar. Many people, including me, found that it was very disrespectful from Aronofsky not to mention that fact, especially taking into account that Satoshi Kon died the very same year Black Swan was released. Ok, he paid for it, but it would have been a nice tribute.
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:19 pm

PochinkoPotanko wrote:
bekalc wrote:

They feel Mirai-as she is skating now is finished.  If Mirai were to come out next year at the GP, and start skating well with good enough content to make the GPF, Mirai's scores at US Nationals would sky rocket.  Just as they did when Ashley two years ago had her break out GP Season, and Alissa had huge improvements and medaled at the GPF three years ago.  Both girls were over 20.

All the USFSA wants is people who get results for them.  And its their job to look for this.  IF they have an older skater who is performing extremely well internationally-they will go with them.  If they have a younger skater who shows extreme talent with high 3/3's, and a lot of their senior talent is not getting huge results internationally, then they will give the younger talent opportunities.

The point of the matter is once again, Mirai has had the same opportunities as Ashley and Alissa had to go out there do well at international events, and build a reputation with her federation.  Instead she's been a mess for the last 3.5/4 years.  The fact that her fans even say what Mirai will show up good Mirai or bad Mirai-is frankly telling.

Once again these were good skates for Mirai but they had problems. No difficult 3/3 and also, Scott is correct that the programs didn't have much choreography, had stops and pauses etc.  Its not exactly going to get huge PCS internationally.  Now I do think that Polina was given a boost by US judges, but once again their feelings  about wanting to give Polina chances is frankly absolutely justified.

No, their reasons for wanting to give Polina a chance can be understood, but that doesn't mean it's absolutely just. I don't mind if you feel differently, but plz stop making it seem like the US Fed had all the right in the world to consider Mirai as a finished skater. Even if it wasn't enough for them, she  skated the best she had in Nats over the past few seasons. She is showing progress.

It certainly is the US Fed's job to choose who has the highest possibility of winning, I agree. But I think it's clear to everyone that if not GG or Ashley, no US lady has a chance for the podium in Sochi anyway. I remember you've said yourself that Polina has no chance of getting a medal, and they chose her just to give her a huge experience to become better in the future. But you've suddenly shifted your point to the US Fed's responsibility to select who can get the best results. I assume you had to to avoid pearlyriver's claim that if they only wanted to give a promising young skater an experience in a major intl competition, why did they not simply choose to send Polina to Worlds or 4CC.

As much as Mirai, Polina has given us no actual evidence that she is totally capable of making good results in Olys. If she had, nobody would've had any problems about her being chosen to be an Olympian. But there are many people who do have a problem with it, and that's going to add more pressure to Polina than which she already has to deal with on having Olys be the first intl senior competition she's ever entered. From what I've heard she didn't seem all happy and excited about being chosen for Olys at all. When I think about it from Polina's side, I can't help wondering if she considers this a gift or a burden. [/quote]

Did you read my post where I said that if Mirai were to start doing well on the GP events, that they'd happily go back at her.  The USFSA is done with the current version of Mirai.

I mean how is this year really any different from four years ago where Mirai was sloppy the entire year before, and still a bit sloppy and right before the Olympics she got it together for a little bit.  But as soon as the Olympics was over, she was back to inconsistent.

And I think as a federation they have every right and every responsibility to give opportunities to the people they feel are most likely to produce the best results currently and in the future.  Mirai's international results even with a good skate aren't super great.  And so they probably aren't convinced at either girl but they feel that Polina has a technical arsenal that can do very well.

Its not even the first time the USFSA is done this.  I recall Czisny who they use to give sky high PCS to no matter what. Well after her disasterous worlds and during the Olympic season, suddenly her scores were downgraded including underotations she never got before.  Guess what happened, Alissa dumped her coach, worked on some of her issues, and came back a much better skater..

Sometimes, telling the athlete shape up or get it out, actually makes them improve.
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:57 pm

bekalc wrote:
 Its not even the first time the USFSA is done this.  I recall Czisny who they use to give sky high PCS to no matter what. Well after her disasterous worlds and during the Olympic season, suddenly her scores were downgraded including underotations she never got before.  Guess what happened, Alissa dumped her coach, worked on some of her issues, and came back a much better skater..

Sometimes, telling the athlete shape up or get it out, actually makes them improve.

Yeah right, Alissa should be grateful to the US Fed being harsh on her all the credit goes to them for her becoming a better skater. But I suppose it's solely her own fault it lasted only for a short while, and where the hell is she now? Plz don't get me wrong though, I'm totally fine with strict scoring and I agree it does help skaters to figure out what they should improve. I do think sending messages through scoring is absolutely necessary. What I do not think is such messages should be sent by deciding who to let go and not let go to the most important event for all skaters such as Olys.

But whatever...we simply have different opinions on this, and the more I express my disagreement you end up writing on and on about how horrible Mirai had been the past few years. I doubt she'll happen to drop by and look through this forum, but I really don't feel like pushing someone into criticizing her online right now so I'll respect your views and drop this debate. Thank you for your time and trouble for explaining everything you can to an idiot like me (oh, but I can at least use the quote tags better than you  Smile ).

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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:08 pm

Iceriver wrote:

BTW, this is off topic but...have any of you watched the film Perfect Blue? It's an anime by the director Satoshi Kon  (who sadly passed away 3 years ago at the age of 47) which inspired Darren Aronofsky when he wrote the plot for Black Swan. In fact, Aronofsky bought the rights of that film and, although the plot is different (Perfect Blue has nothing to do with ballet) many scenes and psychological aspects of the main character are similar. Many people, including me, found that it was very disrespectful from Aronofsky not to mention that fact, especially taking into account that Satoshi Kon died the very same year Black Swan was released. Ok, he paid for it, but it would have been a nice tribute.

Oh, thanks for mentioning it. Perfect Blue is my most favorite film from Satoshi Kon (I even like it better than the critically acclaimed Paprika). I know people are gushing about how good a director Aronofsky he is, but there's something about him which bother me. I don't think he's as original as people claim. There're some elements in his films (not just Black Swan) which I believe to be drawn from other veteran directors overseas but  he gets all the credit for it. Not to mention that I have a problem with Black Swan because he made it sound like Natalie did the majority of ballet in the movie, while it was definitely not. I find it disrespectful to ballet when a director makes the audience believe that an actress who has never done ballet in years can pull off Bolshoi-level ballet after one or two years of training. That's impossible, no matter how hard she trained and how strong-willed she was.

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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:46 pm

pearlyriver wrote:
Iceriver wrote:

BTW, this is off topic but...have any of you watched the film Perfect Blue? It's an anime by the director Satoshi Kon  (who sadly passed away 3 years ago at the age of 47) which inspired Darren Aronofsky when he wrote the plot for Black Swan. In fact, Aronofsky bought the rights of that film and, although the plot is different (Perfect Blue has nothing to do with ballet) many scenes and psychological aspects of the main character are similar. Many people, including me, found that it was very disrespectful from Aronofsky not to mention that fact, especially taking into account that Satoshi Kon died the very same year Black Swan was released. Ok, he paid for it, but it would have been a nice tribute.

Oh, thanks for mentioning it. Perfect Blue is my most favorite film from Satoshi Kon (I even like it better than the critically acclaimed Paprika). I know people are gushing about how good a director Aronofsky he is, but there's something about him which bother me. I don't think he's as original as people claim. There're some elements in his films (not just Black Swan) which I believe to be drawn from other veteran directors overseas but  he gets all the credit for it. Not to mention that I have a problem with Black Swan because he made it sound like Natalie did the majority of ballet in the movie, while it was definitely not. I find it disrespectful to ballet when a director makes the audience believe that an actress who has never done ballet in years can pull off Bolshoi-level ballet after one or two years of training. That's impossible, no matter how hard she trained and how strong-willed she was.

Wow, I didn't know at all that Aronofsky made "Black Swan" inspired by "Perfect Blue". Thanks for the info Iceriver. Now that you've mentioned it, I do notice some similarities between them. Maybe that's one of the reasons why "Black Swan" wasn't all that shocking nor surprising to me. I haven't seen all his films, but I loved "Requiem for a Dream" so I was looking forward to "Black Swan" but it was sort of disappointing. I'm not sure how much a film-maker Aronofsky is yet. "Requiem for a Dream" is novel based unlike "Black Swan", so considering the story I guess the credit should mainly go to the author...But if you read the novel, I think most people would feel that the fact he managed to create an understandable narrative movie from it is enough to credit him as a good director if not a great one. That novel is so disturbing in many ways, if I read it beforehand I may have never bothered to watch the film. I was real happy when Nan Song and Valentina used the "Requiem for a Dream" soundtrack for their pros in the past btw. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:03 am

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

Yeah right, Alissa should be grateful to the US Fed being harsh on her all the credit goes to them for her becoming a better skater. But I suppose it's solely her own fault it lasted only for a short while, and where the hell is she now? Plz don't get me wrong though, I'm totally fine with strict scoring and I agree it does help skaters to figure out what they should improve. I do think sending messages through scoring is absolutely necessary. What I do not think is such messages should be sent by deciding who to let go and not let go to the most important event for all skaters such as Olys.


Alissa has much worse jumping techniques than Mirai (from my naked eyes) and she's also dealing with quite a bad injury. I'm not sure but it seems like ballerina-type skaters or very flexible ones tend to struggle more with deteriorating jumps as they age. I feel so sorry for her. She wanted to go to Nats so bad but her body doesn't agree with her will.
PochinkoPotanko wrote:


Wow, I didn't know at all that Aronofsky made "Black Swan" inspired by "Perfect Blue". Thanks for the info Iceriver. Now that you've mentioned it, I do notice some similarities between them. Maybe that's one of the reasons why "Black Swan" wasn't all that shocking nor surprising to me. I haven't seen all his films, but I loved "Requiem for a Dream" so I was looking forward to "Black Swan" but it was sort of disappointing. I'm not sure how much a film-maker Aronofsky is yet. "Requiem for a Dream" is novel based unlike "Black Swan", so considering the story I guess the credit should mainly go to the author...But if you read the novel, I think most people would feel that the fact he managed to create an understandable narrative movie from it is enough to credit him as a good director if not a great one. That novel is so disturbing in many ways, if I read it beforehand I may have never bothered to watch the film. I was real happy when Nan Song and Valentina used the "Requiem for a Dream" soundtrack for their pros in the past btw. Razz

I don't mean to say that he's not a good director. I think Requiem for a Dream is his peak, The Fountain is also good although it was inexplicably slammed by critics. I don't study film but I just don't think Black Swan is as good as those two. I liked the music, editing, themes and directing but the symbolism was too obvious for me. It was probably because I had watched Perfect Blue before Black Swan so I felt a bit disappointed.

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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:11 am

pearlyriver wrote:
PochinkoPotanko wrote:

Yeah right, Alissa should be grateful to the US Fed being harsh on her all the credit goes to them for her becoming a better skater. But I suppose it's solely her own fault it lasted only for a short while, and where the hell is she now? Plz don't get me wrong though, I'm totally fine with strict scoring and I agree it does help skaters to figure out what they should improve. I do think sending messages through scoring is absolutely necessary. What I do not think is such messages should be sent by deciding who to let go and not let go to the most important event for all skaters such as Olys.


Alissa has much worse jumping techniques than Mirai (from my naked eyes) and she's also dealing with quite a bad injury. I'm not sure but it seems like ballerina-type skaters or very flexible ones tend to struggle more with deteriorating jumps as they age. I feel so sorry for her. She wanted to go to Nats so bad but her body doesn't agree with her will.

Yep, I'm aware of that pearlyriver (sorry, I was just being a bit sarcastic when I asked where Alissa is...Who, me? ). I also feel very sorry she seems to be struggling with a series of injuries. I'm not against it or anything, but I can't help thinking those injuries have something to do with her being vegetarian. It's hard to imagine how an athlete can go on with no meat. No 

pearlyriver wrote:

I don't mean to say that he's not a good director. I think Requiem for a Dream is his peak, The Fountain is also good although it was inexplicably slammed by critics. I don't study film but I just don't think Black Swan is as good as those two. I liked the music, editing, themes and directing but the symbolism was too obvious for me. It was probably because I had watched Perfect Blue before Black Swan so I felt a bit disappointed.

I don't think you need to study film to figure out if a film's good or not. If you felt it isn't good, it's a no good film at least for you and you have all the right to say it's no good. A film cannot exist without an audience, so ultimately the audience has all the say imho (figure skating or any form of performance which requires an audience is more or less the same I think). I totally agree with you about the symbolism being too obvious. With too many crystal clear clues scattered all over from the beginning, nobody needs to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out how "Black Swan" would end. The mystery part is basically the same as films like "Angel Heart", "Memento", "Mulholland Drive" and even "Psycho" in addition to various other suspense films. Which means if you're the kind of person who sees movies a bit more often than most people, I think it's only natural you didn't find "Black Swan" to be anything  surprising. With all these films already out in the world, it must be terribly difficult for film-makers to come up with a story which has no similarities to others, so I don't mind about that. But I do think Aronofsky could've done better in presenting it in a more refreshing way. Sad

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bekalc



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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:49 am

"
But whatever...we simply have different opinions on this, and the more I express my disagreement you end up writing on and on about how horrible Mirai had been the past few years. I doubt she'll happen to drop by and look through this forum, but I really don't feel like pushing someone into criticizing her online right now so I'll respect your views and drop this debate. Thank you for your time and trouble for explaining everything you can to an idiot like me (oh, but I can at least use the quote tags better than you  Smile "

But its okay for you to talk about how Polina  doesn't deserve this?  She beat Mirai at Nationals.  I frankly think that a lot of people are basing this because they have know  Mirai for years  and Polina is new.  Its fair game to discuss Mirai's international results, if people are going to argue that Mirai should be on this team because of body of work.  And if  very inconsistent results, no world medals,  NO GP wins, no GPF Final and two years straight out of the top five at US nationals, is body of work enough to bypass a new skater at Nationals.  Then how is any new skater ever going to make a World or Olympic team?

From the USFSA's perspective they see Julia and Radionova who are higher on the international judges eyes than Polina, even though they are all the same age.  From their perspective, its because Russia gave those girls opportunities to skate on the GP.

USFSA screwed up, they didn't give Polina a JGP spot or Junior worlds last year, they should have.  But the last thing they want is for Polina to continue to loss out experience wise to folks like Julia.  They feel this girl is extremely talented , she could be a world/ Olympic champion some day.  And they want to make sure she is given every opportunity.  

They did the same thing four years ago, when they decided okay yes Sasha has  this great body of work, but none of our girls are medaling, so we might as well give the youngsters Mirai and Rachael the opportunity.  Its the same thought process.

People keep on saying well Mirai's uber talented too,  yes she is, but she hasn't portrayed that into world medal, GPF titles, etc.  There are a lots of reasons, a skater might not live up to their potential.  And that doesn't make them horrible people.

But its more than reasonable for a federation to think if a skater hasn't done that in six years, there's a good chance it won't happen.  And to think that maybe its worth it to give another very talented person the opportunity to-maybe win world Olympic medals.

As for Alissa (its not surprising giving her age that she didn't have a lot longer) but the fact remains that scoring Alissa fairly and stop giving her excuses, did lead to Alissa being a better skater.

A federation HAS to allow their young talent to get opportunities they earn.  I read somewhere that it actually would have been a harder decision if Polina had been third for them vs Ashley because they feel that strongly about Polina's potential future, and very much want to get her out their ASAP.

And what does it say to your young skaters if you hold them back based on experience, even if skaters who haven't necessarily been really producing on the international scene.

Its like saying you must have this amount of experience to get a job, but you don't get a job because you don't have experience. In a lot of ways Polina's lack of experience is a technicality.

Its not because of anything she did. If you take an objective look at how Polina and Mirai skated al this season, Polina has made better use of the opportunities she's been given than Mirai has.

Once again the way forward for Mirai is clear. Next year come to the international scene well trained from the beginning. Skate extremely well and start winning, and your federation will look again. Because they will! If Mirai can't do this, than frankly the USFSA is justified in considering looking at other talented folks who may be can.

Yes its sad, but its sport. They all work extremely hard. And other girls deserve opportunities too.
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pearlyriver
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:23 am

PochinkoPotanko wrote:

Yep, I'm aware of that pearlyriver (sorry, I was just being a bit sarcastic when I asked where Alissa is...Who, me? ). I also feel very sorry she seems to be struggling with a series of injuries. I'm not against it or anything, but I can't help thinking those injuries have something to do with her being vegetarian. It's hard to imagine how an athlete can go on with no meat. No 


Isn't Tessa a vegan? I'm semi-vegetarian but I can't imagine how elite athletes can manage to be vegetarian or vegan. They must have to be extremely well-organized in planning their meals  Who, me? .

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Last edited by pearlyriver on Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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zarinaballerina
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:30 am

pearlyriver wrote:


Oh, thanks for mentioning it. Perfect Blue is my most favorite film from Satoshi Kon (I even like it better than the critically acclaimed Paprika). I know people are gushing about how good a director Aronofsky he is, but there's something about him which bother me. I don't think he's as original as people claim. There're some elements in his films (not just Black Swan) which I believe to be drawn from other veteran directors overseas but  he gets all the credit for it. Not to mention that I have a problem with Black Swan because he made it sound like Natalie did the majority of ballet in the movie, while it was definitely not. I find it disrespectful to ballet when a director makes the audience believe that an actress who has never done ballet in years can pull off Bolshoi-level ballet after one or two years of training. That's impossible, no matter how hard she trained and how strong-willed she was.

Don't even get me started on this!  Frustrated  Frustrated  Frustrated  As a ballet graduate I've found this stunt utterly disrespectful to all dancers who have been working their butts off their entire lives, pushed through awful pain and injuries, and majority of them still end up only in corps de ballet. This was such a bullshit, and I was glad when the actual dancer (ABT ballerina) went public and slammed him and Portman for spreading lies. I don't care if Portman trained ballet for a few years when she was 7, picking this art up after so many years will never make you anywhere near the level of a hobby dancer, let alone a proffesional. Yet here she is, doing fouettes en pointe and she's seriously trying to convince people that was her?!

@bekalc, regarding Polina; I think alot of people are pissed because she was majorly held up by the judges, and when USFSA pulled Ashley on the team they've done so because of her "body of work", while they ignored Mirai's not only for Sochi, but also for Tokyo worlds.
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bekalc



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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:37 am

Quote :

@bekalc, regarding Polina; I think alot of people are pissed because she was majorly held up by the judges, and when USFSA pulled Ashley on the team they've done so because of her "body of work", while they ignored Mirai's not only for Sochi, but also for Tokyo worlds.

Once again, I agree that the results at Nationals could have gone either way.  However in Mirai's case her programs were choreographically empty, she was visibly slowing down, and lacked transitions.  She didn't deserve huge PCS.  And that program wouldn't get them at the international level.

Both girls both got a nationals boost. Yes, Polina's got a higher boost but juniors tend to be scored lower on  PCS too. The USFSA judges were trying to send the message. That Polina is just as good as Elena, Radinova, Anna P etc, and I frankly don't think they are wrong. They realize they made a mistake and not getting Polina out there earlier (They did) and they are rectifying that Pronto. Because they don't want the Russian kids to get any more legs up on the international scene.

Russia putting their young jumpers out there is working for them, they are now doing it the same.

I do think there was a sense of we are taking Polina and a real decision was made.  However the facts are Polina DID land two really difficult 3/3s in that long program.  And more triples than Mirai....


Essentially they want Polina/Gold for their technical prowess and future potential.  And Ashley as the grizzled vet who is good at delivering.  Mirai had neither one to recommend herself.
If you look at it right now they are focusing on girls Polina and Gold who have the technical goods.  Polina earned her spot when she showed she could do those tehnical goods under the pressure of Nationals.

If you look at it ,who the USFSA is pushing its pretty much same in men. You better have outstanding artistry (Brown) or outstanding Jumps (Max) otherwise...
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Alokya
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PostSubject: Re: Other Nationals   Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:51 am

pearlyriver wrote:
PochinkoPotanko wrote:

Yep, I'm aware of that pearlyriver (sorry, I was just being a bit sarcastic when I asked where Alissa is...Who, me? ). I also feel very sorry she seems to be struggling with a series of injuries. I'm not against it or anything, but I can't help thinking those injuries have something to do with her being vegetarian. It's hard to imagine how an athlete can go on with no meat. No 


Isn't Tessa a vegan? I'm semi-vegetarian but I can't imagine how elite athletes can manage to be vegetarian or vegan. They must have to be extremely well-organized in planning their meals  Who, me? .

I'm going to get on my soapbox for a bit, so my apologies. I don't know if Tessa is vegan, but I know that Meghan Duhamel is. And I have turned mostly vegan for medical reasons, but before that, I was a vegetarian by choice. I am a pretty active person, although not as active as these people - I swim at least an hour a day, and I walk to and from/school work, totaling about an hour of pure walking each day. I actually found the switch to vegetarianism easier on my body - I had more energy, especially when I was swimming, and the same was true when I switched to veganism from being vegetarian. I do believe that some people's metabolisms are equipped to deal with meat. However, I have come to the conclusion that mine is not one of them. I think it really depends on somebody's evolutionary makeup. I come from a country that rarely eats meat, soy, or wheat, and I have noticed that my body does not handle those materials as well. Being a vegetarian may work out really well for Alissa, and I know that Meghan has talked about how being vegan actually improved her training a lot.
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