HomeHome  PortalPortal  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log inLog in  

Share | 
 

 Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
AuthorMessage
roma
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan
avatar

Posts : 1810
Join date : 2009-05-07
Location : la-la-land

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:28 pm

Now that Mao's first competition is over, I wanna ask you all your opinion on TSL's 1st question: Does Mao Asada need to add facial expressions to her short program?

For me, nope. Mao's skating and personality can speak for itself. No need to make exaggerated facial expressions which doesn't feel natural. Some people don't like this and take this out against her but I prefer her skating and expressions to be naturally Mao. It's the first time she skated that SP, first GP competition after a year out, she was feeling nervous and she was aiming for the most difficult jump layout yet. Of course they won't see it yet.

When Mao gets comfortable with her SP and her jumps (which usually happens after a competition or two more), Mao can skate it so much better with expressions that don't feel forced or artificial. Just look at how her I Got Rhythm progressed later that season.

-----

As for her jumps, I feel this is the season to challenge those jump layouts. Sure, she may not get them all ratified but she will be more confident with it and get used to it, too. Changing layouts just seem to mess up her jumps and focus more like in Sochi season when she attempted 2 x 3A's after Amano URed one the most beautiful 3As she's ever done. It also resulted in more mistakes on subsequent competitions. I felt as if she'd have done better if she continued with the original layout rather than trying a different one mid season.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.casualdoodles.com
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:38 pm

I agree I don't think Mao should change her facial expressions. I think Mao's expression in this performance is absolutely captivating. There seems to be a school of thought that exaggerated facial gestures are best like a melodramatic scene but I like Mao's facial expressions.   

I think Mao should do what she wants with her jumps layout. This is her comeback and she doesn't have to do anything more to prove her greatness to me or anyone else. She said herself that she would not be motivated to skate if she didn't have an ideal in her mind of the perfect performance so let her try to fulfill it. She doesn't have to worry about finances and the judging for her will always be deflated anyway and beneficial for Russians and top Americans by comparison.        


Last edited by WowMao on Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:08 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
zarinaballerina
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan


Posts : 3545
Join date : 2011-04-29

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:47 am

@Shar, those gifs are so cute. Love Hearts

roma wrote:
Now that Mao's first competition is over, I wanna ask you all your opinion on TSL's 1st question: Does Mao Asada need to add facial expressions to her short program?

For me, nope. Mao's skating and personality can speak for itself. No need to make exaggerated facial expressions which doesn't feel natural. Some people don't like this and take this out against her but I prefer her skating and expressions to be naturally Mao. It's the first time she skated that SP, first GP competition after a year out, she was feeling nervous and she was aiming for the most difficult jump layout yet. Of course they won't see it yet.

When Mao gets comfortable with her SP and her jumps (which usually happens after a competition or two more), Mao can skate it so much better with expressions that don't feel forced or artificial. Just look at how her I Got Rhythm progressed later that season.

-----

As for her jumps, I feel this is the season to challenge those jump layouts. Sure, she may not get them all ratified but she will be more confident with it and get used to it, too. Changing layouts just seem to mess up her jumps and focus more like in Sochi season when she attempted 2 x 3A's after Amano URed one the most beautiful 3As she's ever done. It also resulted in more mistakes on subsequent competitions. I felt as if she'd have done better if she continued with the original layout rather than trying a different one mid season.

The answer to TSL question; absolutely not! She expresses her SP wounderfully with her whole body, because she feels the music and isn't just acting it out. Seriously people, what's up with all this exaggerated facial mimick. I think of a pair skater Alexa Scimeca. A beautiful skater, but her facial expressions...geez girl, tone it down. Even the comentators are commenting on it. Who, me?
Like you've said, Mao was just nervous. With more milage under her skates, she'll be more relaxed. Just look at her right before she begings her step sequence. Absolutely fantastic. I love her entire exression. her eyes, her face,her body. Who needs "sexy smirks" and/or anxiety, when you can tell so much more by just expressing the music with every move you make. She was sassy and a bit flirtatious and I loved it. keep it going Mao!

Normally I would agree with you on her jumps. But Mao has a long history of ur problems. And I feel, that every time she gets hit with this, her credibility falls in the judges' eyes. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but it's just the feeling I have. IMO, in her SP, she should switch to 3F-3T and 3 loop. I don't think she'll manage to get a clean lutz. I'd loved to be proven wrong though. Yep!
It's another suspicion I have, if she's placed third or lower, again the judges will lower her scores, IMO. So she needs to stay as close to the leader in SP, or preferably, needs as much of a point cushion as she can get. Her 3lo in combo will almost always get ur'ed (has she ever gotten this combo ratified?), and her 3 lutz will at best get !, so her score is going to suffer and that's with her landing a clean 3A. Imagine if she messes up that one as well, pale she will get burried. This is only IMO, of course. at the end of the day, team Mao knows best. But I do hope they will become more strategic. Escape
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:49 pm

Here is a very high quality video of Mao's SP at Cup of China. The greatest show on earth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpfgCzS2k-Q


Here is a very high quality video of Mao's LP at Cup of China
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO43yNvj9iU

In my opinion, Mao's Sp performance is the best this season by far no matter what score Gracie Gold is given with no lip call and inflated PCS only .4 points below Mao.
I didn't realize this at first but before the overly harsh tech calls on Mao the judges gave her SP a world record score of 79.2 and that is with a deflated PCS of only 34.6.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
roma
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan
avatar

Posts : 1810
Join date : 2009-05-07
Location : la-la-land

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:57 pm

zarinaballerina wrote:
Her 3lo in combo will almost always get ur'ed (has she ever gotten this combo ratified?), and her 3 lutz will at best get !, so her score is going to suffer and that's with her landing a clean 3A. Imagine if she messes up that one as well, pale  she will get burried. This is only IMO, of course. at the end of the day, team Mao knows best. But I do hope they will become more strategic. Escape

Her 3Lo in combo was ratified at Worlds 2014 although in that combo they URed the 3F. Judges' GOE ranged from -1 to 1 for that combo there. I thought both jumps should've been ratified when I saw it live.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.casualdoodles.com
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:09 am

zarinaballerina wrote:
The TES is correct, IMO. An ur'ed jump get a certain minus goe ( I don't remember if it's an automatic -1 across the board or more). Her loop was visibly ur'ed in slow-mo. The only thing I disagree with tech panel is "e" on her lutz. To me, ! would've been enough. As for PCS, I think we all agree, she was underscored. Had she skated at SA or SC, she would've gotten 35+.
Edit:
As for her Sochi LP, since you've brought it up, it's been a year and a half and my blood still boils when I remember the atrocity that was her LP score. I'd love nothing more than to send Lakernik and the rest of the judges, to where "the sun doesn't shine".  Twisted Evil Mao's score should've been the scandal not whining about Kim's silver medal.


Please give Mao the credit you yourself say she deserves, zarinaballerina. You say Mao should have higher PCS which I agree with, but then you say you are fine with Mao's tech score. Yet, you say Mao should have only gotten a ! instead of the overly harsh e. This is a significant difference in score of around 2.5 points, which is enough to make her SP score higher than Gracie's. To my mind, it is anyway. The Russian announcers I mentioned looked at Mao's edge on her triple lutz in both real time and instant replay and thought it was the right (outside) edge. This call alone cost Mao 3 points at least.    

I don't believe Mao should have been called for a ur on her backend 3 loop in her 3F / 3L combo because, for example, Liza's backend 3T in her 3T / 3T combo in the Worlds SP 2014 was ratified with what looks to me like less rotation.  Furthermore, I have a friend who is a mathematician and I asked him to compare Mao's SP at Cup of China to Liza's SP at Worlds 2014. I didn't say anything before I showed them. While watching Liza's he said he definitely noticed a big spray of ice and rough landing on the backend 3T, while he said he thought Mao's jumps and everything else looked a lot better. When I told him that Liza's SP had received 6 points higher, he immediately said that a large clerical error had been made. I also saw less rotation in the backend of one of Maria Sotskova's combos in Juniors this season that was not called ur.  

Sometimes the fresh perspective of an outsider who is not familiar with the ISU's  "spin" on rotation and edges is refreshingly honest.

I think people are so used to seeing Mao get harsh ur and edge calls, rock bottom GOE, and deflated PCS, on skating forums that when it happens even if it isn't justified they passively accept it and this reinforces the stereotype. I have to admit I admire Mao as kind of an innocent, compelling rebel figure when it comes to the extra harsh constraints the scoring system places on her. I think this is part of where her fighter appeal comes from. '       

Periodic reality checks on youtube to see what people really want to see is one of my newest forms of fair scoring. Either way it's a numbers game at least here there are a lot more viewers without federation connection:

Mao's top video for her SP 371,000 views-  total for most videos-  over 750,000  in 8 days

Liza's top video for SP at Worlds 89,000- total for most watched-  a little over 200,000 in 8 months, Liza scored 6 points more  

Evgenia's top SP video in the Grand Prix a little over 46,000-   total around 105,000 views in    22 days

Gracie Gold LP video Skate America top video a little more than 30,000 views total around 120,000 views    21 days ago  

Ashley Wagner's top a little over 28,000    total around 50,000              15 days

Viewers know where to go when they want to see a real entertaining show.

Mao has more views for her SP than all the best clean SP and LP performances by her 4 top competitors combined and she had a lot less time to do it.


In TEB Gracie Gold skated well but was inflated. The most liked response on Gracie Gold's Trophy Eric Bombpard Video

 Ryan Wilkinson 17 hours ago
Obviously the best SP performance at TEB but 73 seems a bit too high, especially compared to Mao's 71 at CoC =/.
Reply Likes · 10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgu9EoXe55M

Here are more comments about Gracie Gold's overlooked edge call on her triple flip, with a reminder in the post of how much extra pressure Mao is under for having to endure overly harsh tech scrutiny.

chainsaw bees 5 hours ago
chainsaw bees 16 hours ago (edited)
Wonderful performance! but why she doesn't get an edge call on the 3F? Look at the slo-mo, at around 4:48. I'd like to ask the judges about this in person if I had an opportunity.
Reply  · 5


+Renan Braz Parente  I'm not complaining about the result, she deserves to be in the 1st place at this point. But I disagree with you about the edge call. Look closely again, it is a very clear error. I love figure skating, I like Gracie, but I really hate to see this in this sport; judges being inconsistent and unfair. If a skater knows in advance that the judges overlook her mistake, she can skate with less pressure, whereas everybody else has to perform under great pressure. It is totally unfair! Oh but, they say figure skateing is unfair in the first place? oh well...

Tim Lo 13 hours ago
Great skate! The only question I have in regards to the TES is the flip - why did judges give +1 and +2 even though it was on an outside edge? I know it's a different competition but judges gave Mao -1, -2 and even a -3 for her flutz in the short at CoC...

LaFore Artis 13 hours ago
Frank is morphing into Uncle Fez.

Nicely performed by Gracie but overall perfomance was somewhat Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.  The lip was quite obvious.
Reply  · 2

Here are comments about what I and others feel are Gracie's inflated components scores which are only 4/10 of a point lower than Mao's in the SP. I think Mao should have a much larger advantage.

from Italian:  torrenordss 19 hours ago
You understand that the worlds is in Boston. The two Americans took exaggerated scores.


torrenordss 4 hours ago
I am so sad when I hear certain undeserved scores ... just because it is American ....34 pcs ????????? but please ... actually 34.2 PCS


Mango Bay 16 hours ago (edited)
+Ryan Wilkinson 34.2 presentation score is too high,she is not even close artistically to beautiful Mao Asada,who is Master of Figure skating. Mao had 34.6 last week.

Vyacheslav Church 16 hours ago
Again, good technique, but no program ! 34 points for the presentation - not objective !
Reply · 2


Once upon a time there was no spotlight that shined on certain skaters's jumps and the totality of movement in a performance was looked at in real time for its overall effect. Now microscopic tech calls cause dramatic falls in scores for mistakes viewers can't even see the skater make in real time and whether they made them at all in slo mo replay is a debate that goes on and on in forums.  I know i will give Mao not the judges the benefit of the doubt when it comes to her scores. They have used too many strange ways to "arrange" Mao's scores for far too long including innumerable rule changes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:28 am

I hope all the people in France and skaters will get through the tragic situation there safely.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
zarinaballerina
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan


Posts : 3545
Join date : 2011-04-29

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:04 am

My heart goes out to the french. Such a hideous and cowardly crime.  Depressed Crying

roma wrote:
zarinaballerina wrote:
Her 3lo in combo will almost always get ur'ed (has she ever gotten this combo ratified?), and her 3 lutz will at best get !, so her score is going to suffer and that's with her landing a clean 3A. Imagine if she messes up that one as well, pale  she will get burried. This is only IMO, of course. at the end of the day, team Mao knows best. But I do hope they will become more strategic. Escape

Her 3Lo in combo was ratified at Worlds 2014 although in that combo they URed the 3F. Judges' GOE ranged from -1 to 1 for that combo there. I thought both jumps should've been ratified when I saw it live.
Oh gosh, I've completely forgotten about this particular gem. That was just ridiculous.

@WowMao, I have re-read my post and understand why you find it confusing. I forgot to add, that the tech score is ok for me, because to me her lutz looked a bit ur'ed. And since she wasn't called on it, her "e" made the "fair " tes. That being said, after looking at her lutz landing for hours, it may be the camera angle that's making it looked tiny bit short. scratch  Or, maybe I'm starting to hallucinate from too much analysis. Whirly  I find it hard to believe she would actually be given a benefit of  the doubt, therefor her lutz is probably cleany landed. Though if I'm completely honest, it still does look short.  Escape However, her lutz does look ! to me and definitely not e.
Since she's capable of landing clean jumps in run-throughs, I hope she'll soon be able to do the same in the actual competition.

And yes I agree, Gracies flip looked weird yesterday.

WowMao wrote:
Once upon a time there was no spotlight that shined on certain skaters's jumps and the totality of movement in a performance was looked at in real time for its overall effect. Now microscopic tech calls cause dramatic falls in scores for mistakes viewers can't even see the skater make in real time and whether they made them at all in slo mo replay is a debate that goes on and on in forums. I know i will give Mao not the judges the benefit of the doubt when it comes to her scores. They have used too many strange ways to "arrange" Mao's scores for far too long including innumerable rule changes.

Agree. Sarah hughes, the 2002 Olympic champion had ur issues. Under IJS, she probably wouldn't even medal, let alone won.
To be honest I do agree with the judges to ur or downgrade someone's jump, if it's landed too short. my problem with this system is that some skaters are constantly being hit with ur's or worse, while others are being ignored or given the benfit of doubt. Treat everyone the same. Either judge them all strictly or ignore the landings for them all. Instead, they cherry pick, and it's really annoying and unfair.

I trully admire Mao for wanting to put herself through this mess all over again. It's so frustrating seeing her jumps get hit, even when borderline. As for slow-mo replays, the camera man should show the landing from diferent sides imo. An angle wiev does make a difference.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:17 am

I didn't see a ur on the triple lutz and neither did the Russian announcers. They didn't see any edge problems, but a ! would be a lot better than an e; So ! or a good lutz should be the call, but of course Mao gets the worst option. It's kind of a badge of honor that the judges have to work so hard to hold her down and she still has won so many championships. I have a dream that her deflated scoring will cause people to rise up and call for the system to be changed one day.  

One of the things that bothers me the most about the urs and edge calls besides the fact that they didn't even exist ten years ago is that one ur on a big jump is worth an entire step sequence!! Basically the skater could just stop for about 30 seconds or just do crossovers and get more points than if they lacked a few degrees of rotation on a jump. I don't accept this microscopic analysis anymore because the punishment is out of all the proportion to the often debatable barely or in some cases invisible infraction. I also believe that with an anonymous judging system it promotes more rigging of scores because all that has to be done is to keep PCS close and then "rig or overlook" a few ur calls and voila you have the result you are looking for. For example, Mao's triple axel at Worlds in 2014 with +1.6 GOE originally had a score over 10 but by the time the judges had given it a bogus UR it was worth only 6 points wiping out the entire value of the step sequence. These excessively harsh ur rules are one of the things that caused Mao to lose Worlds in 2007 besides the value of the triple axel being smaller than it is, which is still worth less than is is under 6.0.

I know I am most interested in focusing on the flow of overall body motion through jumps, spins and steps in real time. I understand a lot of people place high value in it, but I get very annoyed when I have to go back and make the viewing experience a "scientific experiment" by looking at instant replay for 3 minutes to try and discern the accurate call on a jump. I don't know one person who watches figure skating outside a forum who is willing to do this or thinks it is important to factor in things that can't be seen with the naked eye in the score.

In my opinion, I think urs and edge calls should be given as 1 of 8 GOE bullets and I think the judges should also assign levels. In place of a tech crew, I think there should be a PCS panel including dancers and skaters to analyze the COP criteria of which artistry should be included in my opinion. I also think speed skaters should no longer control figure skating. I foresee a time soon when those who are just good jumpers can win, without too much elegance since height and distance are all that often matter. Then, these skaters could just do fast crossovers and fill in with rather mediocre spins, steps and expression and win or medal especially if the tech panel spotlight doesn't shine on them because they are one of the top skaters with a good reputation often from a powerful federation.  Jumps are 80 percent of the tech score now and the new disturbing trend is to tie high tech scores to PCS scores. As a result, focus on skating skills and spins and steps has fallen in my opinion. I think reducing the percentage of the tech score assigned to jumps by reintroducing spirals and increasing the value of the step sequence would also create more diversity and interest in performances. These are just my views. None of it will probably ever come true, but as in Mao's case there is a growing disconnect between the judge's scores and the performances people want to see on youtube, which for Mao was also obviously true for her Sochi LP.

Sorry I just think all the power put in the hands of tech crews has taken a lot of joy out of watching skating, not necessarily because of the skaters themselves but the often bizarre ways they seem to be evaluated. For me the integrity of most of Mao's great performances is often undermined by a preoccupation with microscopic analysis: I feel the beautiful view of the forest is often lost because the tech crew is busy hacking away at the base of the trees. I feel this way with Mao's performances a lot because I usually can't even see anything wrong in real time and often not on instant replay either.          

Mao's SP had a great impact on me and many others and I don't believe that was reflected in the scores. As one person posted after Mao's LP at SOchi, if Mao's LP cannot break the world record, then the scoring system should be changed so that it can, or it should serve as the model of a great skate under a new system. Mao makes me think in these, for lack of a better word, revolutionary ways and to me that is a sign of a great artist and athlete who cannot be defined by some finite, highly empirical scoring system. I don't know of any other skater who has ever made me feel this way, which makes the concept of an invisible real time ur seem completely trivial.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
zarinaballerina
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan


Posts : 3545
Join date : 2011-04-29

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:29 pm

I absolutely agree with you on getting rid of anonymous judging. This has actually been proposed to ISU after Sochi (I think from USA if I'm not mistaken), but of course ISU didn't want to hear it. It's ridiculous when most judge give +2 goe on something and one or maybe two give -1. Where is logic in that? Or when one judge gives + goe on a failed jump. The same for PCS. You have skaters receiving marks of 8 in SS and in other segments, yet one judge gives it 5 or 6. I mean hello? Whirly

PCS in general is one giant joke. If a skater skates a clean program than his/her PCS rises and you suddenly get from 7 to 8.5 in SS. That is one genious skater I tell you. Rolling Eyes The same when they mess up, their PCS falls significantly. Unless you're Patrick Chan. He can slide on his butt and will get 43+ in SP and over 90 in LP.
When making mistakes, the score in execution and performance segment should fall, but SS? What, because Mao fell on a jump her SS suddenly decreased? Or because Ashley sell the heck out of her program, her SS suddenly became 8.5? Really? Are the judges blind? Her SS are poor, always have been, though she has improved but not enough to get 8.5
And when Gracie gets less than a point lower PCS than Mao, you know the system is screwed.

Right before Sochi season they even made the requirements for level 4 in step seq easier, so more could achieve it. Ridiculous. Sometimes, I do feel as if the system has been made to Mao's disadvantage on purpose. Probably not, but it does feel like it.

I do agree with "punishing" UR's it's only fair that those who land the jumps cleanly get rewarded, and those who don't, to get penalized. However I do have a problem with the tech panel scrutinizing the jumps into oblivion. Honestly if you can't see an ur with slow-mo, don't look at it until you think you can find it, but give the skater the benfit of doubt.

About Mao's lutz in SP; with naked eye her lutz looked amazing. With slow-mo, my first reaction was oh crap it's ur'ed. The more I looked at it, the less certain I am. Sometimes it looks short, sometimes borderline.
As for flutzing; I can't remember who explained it this way, but it went something like this: the skaters will start the lutz on the correct edge, however at the last moment before take off, they will switch to the wrong edge or on the flat edge. So tech controler is looking to that moment right before take off, to determine whether it's a lutz, flutz, or !. And it's very, very dificult to correct the flutz, but not impossible.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:00 pm

zarinaballerina wrote:
I absolutely agree with you on getting rid of anonymous judging. This has actually been proposed to ISU after Sochi (I think from USA if I'm not mistaken), but of course ISU didn't want to hear it. It's ridiculous when most judge give +2 goe on something and one or maybe two give -1. Where is logic in that? Or when one judge gives + goe on a failed jump. The same for PCS. You have skaters receiving marks of 8 in SS and in other segments, yet one judge gives it 5 or 6. I mean hello? Whirly

PCS in general is one giant joke. If a skater skates a clean program than his/her PCS rises and you suddenly get from 7 to 8.5 in SS. That is one genious skater I tell you. Rolling Eyes  The same when they mess up, their PCS falls significantly. Unless you're Patrick Chan. He can slide on his butt and will get 43+ in SP and over 90 in LP.
When making mistakes, the score in execution and performance segment should fall, but SS? What, because Mao fell on a jump her SS suddenly decreased? Or because Ashley sell the heck out of her program, her SS suddenly became 8.5? Really? Are the judges blind? Her SS are poor, always have been, though she has improved but not enough to get 8.5
And when Gracie gets less than a point lower PCS than Mao, you know the system is screwed.

Right before Sochi season they even made the requirements for level 4 in step seq easier, so more could achieve it. Ridiculous. Sometimes, I do feel as if the system has been made to Mao's disadvantage on purpose. Probably not, but it does feel like it.

I do agree with "punishing" UR's it's only fair that those who land the jumps cleanly get rewarded, and those who don't, to get penalized. However I do have a problem with the tech panel scrutinizing the jumps into oblivion. Honestly if you can't see an ur with slow-mo, don't look at it until you think you can find it, but give the skater the benfit of doubt.

About Mao's lutz in SP; with naked eye her lutz looked amazing. With slow-mo, my first reaction was oh crap it's ur'ed. The more I looked at it, the less certain I am. Sometimes it looks short, sometimes borderline.
As for flutzing; I can't remember who explained it this way, but it went something like this: the skaters will start the lutz on the correct edge, however at the last moment before take off, they will switch to the wrong edge or on the flat edge. So tech controler is looking to that moment right before take off, to determine whether it's a lutz, flutz, or !. And it's very, very dificult to correct the flutz, but not impossible.

My understanding of a good lutz is that the toe pick only goes into the ice on the inside skate just at the moment of take off but I assume not the whole blade. Honestly, I smell a rat in the scoring so much of the time, not just for Mao, and I can't help but feel suspicious of the tech calls that drop Mao's 44.6 to 37 when I still after 8 days don't see the tech mistakes clearly except for a ! on the lutz. Then, Mao's PCS scores are barely higher than Gracie Gold while Gracie's Lip is overlooked and Gold's 39 when she finished remains 39. By coincidence, this happens with Worlds being in the United States this season and Gracie having the same coach, Frank Caroll, whose pupil Linda Fratianne barely lost to a German skater because of figures in the 1980 Olympics in the United States. In my opinion, Mao's scores overall including tech calls would be quite different if she had skated as an American or Russian and I say that based on what happened at Sochi. It already beginning to feel a bit like Sochi dejavu and Mao has only skated in one competition. That's all I need to know to be suspicious. And I am an American saying this. I have seen too many suspicious tricks played on Mao in terms of scores so many times in the past.  Meanwhile all the elegance, skating skills, subtle playfulness, mesmerizing step sequences, impeccable posture, peerless camel and Biellmann spins, Mao's compelling artistry and charm. picturesque lines and extensions and in my opinion even the beautiful qualities in her jumps as well, seem meaningless to the judges because Gracie Gold is scoring higher, even though her skating doesn't excite that much. It just doesn't make sense to me. So, I am left to decide for myself what performances are best, just like with Mao's Sochi Lp.


Last edited by WowMao on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
shar
Triple Loop
Triple Loop
avatar

Posts : 781
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Georgia, United States

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:03 pm

Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:02 pm

shar wrote:


It's great to see Mao so happy playing on the ice! She still has the carefree, genuine joy of a girl inside. Who is throwing her in the picture?


You can find many high quality images of Mao at Cup of China at this site. They do have a watermark, but the pictures are still really beautiful. There are a few pictures in which Mao's skating is not covered by a watermark.
To get the best quality, right click on the image and save it.

http://www.gettyimages.ae/photos/mao-asada-cup-of-china-2015?excludenudity=true&family=editorial&page=1&phrase=mao%20asada%20cup%20of%20china%202015&sort=best
Back to top Go down
View user profile
shar
Triple Loop
Triple Loop
avatar

Posts : 781
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Georgia, United States

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:05 pm

That Kanako Murakami throwing Mao during the Stars On Ice 2015 show.

Thanks for posting  the link to these wonderful photos of Mao. I want to add some pictures not included in the link:


Back to top Go down
View user profile
ballerinamao
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan
avatar

Posts : 2262
Join date : 2010-08-10
Location : denmark

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:18 am

WowMao wrote:
zarinaballerina wrote:
I absolutely agree with you on getting rid of anonymous judging. This has actually been proposed to ISU after Sochi (I think from USA if I'm not mistaken), but of course ISU didn't want to hear it. It's ridiculous when most judge give +2 goe on something and one or maybe two give -1. Where is logic in that? Or when one judge gives + goe on a failed jump. The same for PCS. You have skaters receiving marks of 8 in SS and in other segments, yet one judge gives it 5 or 6. I mean hello? Whirly

PCS in general is one giant joke. If a skater skates a clean program than his/her PCS rises and you suddenly get from 7 to 8.5 in SS. That is one genious skater I tell you. Rolling Eyes  The same when they mess up, their PCS falls significantly. Unless you're Patrick Chan. He can slide on his butt and will get 43+ in SP and over 90 in LP.
When making mistakes, the score in execution and performance segment should fall, but SS? What, because Mao fell on a jump her SS suddenly decreased? Or because Ashley sell the heck out of her program, her SS suddenly became 8.5? Really? Are the judges blind? Her SS are poor, always have been, though she has improved but not enough to get 8.5
And when Gracie gets less than a point lower PCS than Mao, you know the system is screwed.

Right before Sochi season they even made the requirements for level 4 in step seq easier, so more could achieve it. Ridiculous. Sometimes, I do feel as if the system has been made to Mao's disadvantage on purpose. Probably not, but it does feel like it.

I do agree with "punishing" UR's it's only fair that those who land the jumps cleanly get rewarded, and those who don't, to get penalized. However I do have a problem with the tech panel scrutinizing the jumps into oblivion. Honestly if you can't see an ur with slow-mo, don't look at it until you think you can find it, but give the skater the benfit of doubt.

About Mao's lutz in SP; with naked eye her lutz looked amazing. With slow-mo, my first reaction was oh crap it's ur'ed. The more I looked at it, the less certain I am. Sometimes it looks short, sometimes borderline.
As for flutzing; I can't remember who explained it this way, but it went something like this: the skaters will start the lutz on the correct edge, however at the last moment before take off, they will switch to the wrong edge or on the flat edge. So tech controler is looking to that moment right before take off, to determine whether it's a lutz, flutz, or !. And it's very, very dificult to correct the flutz, but not impossible.

My understanding of a good lutz is that the toe pick only goes into the ice on the inside skate just at the moment of take off but I assume not the whole blade. Honestly, I smell a rat in the scoring so much of the time, not just for Mao, and I can't help but feel suspicious of the tech calls that drop Mao's 44.6 to 37 when I still after 8 days don't see the tech mistakes clearly except for a ! on the lutz. Then, Mao's PCS scores are barely higher than Gracie Gold while Gracie's Lip is overlooked and Gold's 39 when she finished remains 39. By coincidence, this happens with Worlds being in the United States this season and Gracie having the same coach, Frank Caroll, whose pupil Linda Fratianne barely lost to a German skater because of figures in the 1980 Olympics in the United States. In my opinion, Mao's scores overall including tech calls would be quite different if she had skated as an American or Russian and I say that based on what happened at Sochi. It already beginning to feel a bit like Sochi dejavu and Mao has only skated in one competition. That's all I need to know to be suspicious. And I am an American saying this. I have seen too many suspicious tricks played on Mao in terms of scores so many times in the past.  Meanwhile all the elegance, skating skills, subtle playfulness, mesmerizing step sequences, impeccable posture, peerless camel and Biellmann spins, Mao's compelling artistry and charm. picturesque lines and extensions and in my opinion even the beautiful qualities in her jumps as well, seem meaningless to the judges because Gracie Gold is scoring higher, even though her skating doesn't excite that much. It just doesn't make sense to me. So, I am left to decide for myself what performances are best, just like with Mao's Sochi Lp.

Something is fishy, and I have been feeling the same for a looong time, the tech calls Mao got in COC are really suspecious and I too am smelling a rat in the scoring, it looks soo obviously fixed
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:58 am

ballerinamao wrote:
WowMao wrote:
zarinaballerina wrote:

Something is fishy, and I have been feeling the same for a looong time, the tech calls Mao got in COC are really suspecious and I too am smelling a rat in the scoring, it looks soo obviously fixed


Besides the fact that Mao's view count on youtube is like 20 times that of Gracie Gold's when you compare them 4 days after they performed, the reaction of the audience is much more positive for Mao as well. She received a standing ovation from most of the audience, but the reaction was rather quiet to Gracie Gold's SP and nobody that I saw stood up. The scores are far from the reality because they contradict peoples' reaction. The Russian announcers were also much more positive about Mao's SP when they said it seriously threatened a world record, but said nothing like this about Gracie's SP. Besides the tech fix, the other smelly rat is Mao's deflated PCS score compared to other skaters. I am preparing myself for what they will give Adelina. I know Mao is her friend. I am focusing on the judges not her. I hope Mao can handle the extra stress placed on her because of the rough treatment she receives from the judges. In my opinion, Mao's greatest legacy besides the elegance, profound beauty and emotional depth of her performances is that she is a symbol for waging an artistic and athletic battle against scoring injustice. The Battling Butterfly with colors that shine so bright reveals for certain her scores aren't right.


Last edited by WowMao on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
shar
Triple Loop
Triple Loop
avatar

Posts : 781
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Georgia, United States

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:01 am

^This is why I didn't want Mao to compete again. I knew, even without Yuna or Caro competing, Mao still wouldn't get the PCS she deserves. I hate to say this, but I wish the JSF were led be a dominating, bitchy group who would fight hard for their skaters (like Mao) to get them the scoring they deserved. And call out unfair judging, and threaten to cut ties with ISU (as their biggest sponsors, ISU will be heavily affect by JSF cutting ties with them).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:23 am

Your welcome, shar, I am glad you like the beautiful pictures of Mao at that site. At this site you can hundreds of high quality images a
I agree the JSF should play hardball and demand higher scores for its skaters. Besides Mao, just look at how low Yuka Nagai's PCS was for her gorgeous Madame Butterfly performance: only 27.55, 6 points behind Ashley Wagner. But, ethnic Japanese tech callers, like Amano and the Japanese tech judge in the 2014 Worlds LP, have made the worst tech calls against Mao presumably as cover because if there were a complaint they could then turn and say that a Japanese judge made the call so it must be legitimate. Amano is known to have more loyalty to Canada than Japan from what I have heard because he lives there, but I don't know for sure. This makes me think the JSF either does the bidding of the ISU to keep the scores of Japanese women down, or they have no power to stop it within the system.

The insidious thing to me is that all means have been used to keep down Mao's scores in the past and in her Cup of China SP: deflated PCS and GOE, ur and edge calls. Though Rika Hongo is not one of my favorite skaters, I  admire her strength and passion. But, I noticed that Rika Hongo's triple/ triple in the short looked more ur to me than Mao's 3F /3L because her skate slid out a little and she lost control slightly with what looked like a hook on the back end  to me. If the tech crew are going to judge Mao so harshly with a smooth landing on the border of the quarter turn for a combo that no other women can do or even has the guts to try, then they should be harsh with everybody. I don't think Mao's ur should have been called.  

There is an interesting point concerning Gracie's inflated SP score relative to Mao's. It turns out that Annett Pötzsch was a tech specialist on the panel.   Annett Potzsch won what many consider to be a highly controversial gold medal over Linda Fratianne who was coached by Frank Caroll  in 1980 in Lake Placid, United States. He was extremely vocal about how upset he was by that decision, so the ISU placing Annett in the tech panel with an overlooked lip call looks suspicious and like a conflict of interest because it is plausible to assume that Annett may give generous tech calls to Gracie as "pay back" to Frank for  Linda Fratianne's loss in 1980.  

Really amazing that the ISU doesn't even try to hide this conflict of interest. For me, they have lost credibility to give just scoring. What will they try next?

Mao needs to have a movie. The drama she goes through is so compelling:.beautiful but heart breaking. She is more beautiful than a movie star and a lot more talented. She is a great natural actress on ice full of genuine emotions and she can sing. And she manages to be full of joy in the face of adversity. I want to see Action Mao dressed in black face off against the judges.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ballerinamao
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan
avatar

Posts : 2262
Join date : 2010-08-10
Location : denmark

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:56 pm

lol it seems like the whole skating world and all commentators from different countries are happy to see Mao back, except the judges
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:49 am

Update: comparing the number of views 8 days after they performed  

Mao's top video for her SP had 371,000 views, 2nd most viewed was about 83,000 and her total for most of her videos was over 750,000 in 8 days.

Gracie's after 8 days top video about 15,000 with a total number of views around 40,000.  

The ur and edge calls are not given out fairly or consistently and they are debated endlessly whether they are even there or not. Mao, the only high SP score this season with any tech deductions and there were a bunch of them, is still by far the one people want to see the most. And the only reason such harsh tech calls even exist is because of offenses committed back in 2002 by what seem to be the same federations that are benefiting from the new rules. Elena skated well and I know a lot of people like her style. I do like her as a person and thinks she shows emotion when she skates. But, in her SP performance. I feel the judges were unjust in giving her a higher score than Mao because of what looked to me like low asymmetrical jumps with scratchy, hunched, and some hooked landings, not holding positions long enough (though the final Biellmann was nice) and a bit too much arm flailing and her PCS score went up by almost 2 points in the SP and she is yet another skater who is not far behind Mao in PCS. Sorry to say this I do like Elena as a person, but I have friend who is not a fan of Mao who was even more critical of Elena's skating after he compared her to what he called Mao's incredibly beautiful and professional performance. of every motion. They especially noticed the triple axel and the sharpness, precision, speed, fluidity and symmetry in Mao's jumps, movements, spins and step sequences.

The ISU's tactic seems to be keeping the PCS scores close and setting up tech calls geared for the favorites.  I think the power federations, Russia and the US will fight out an inflation battle, and Mao's scores well be held down in the middle. I do think this happens with other Asian skaters too. I hope I am wrong and that it changes. I wish Mao all the best next week.


Here is a new video of Mao's Ballade performance in Almaty:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQ-yeUGKBE

Here is a fan cam of Mao skating with Javier Fernandez in the exhibition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-qx84Qbfwc  


Here is a beautiful picture of Mao in Nagano Station posted by yhma fan:  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUTQ1swVAAQfVoA.jpg

I think I might miss my train, if I saw that gorgeous picture of Mao in the station.


Last edited by WowMao on Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:53 am

Post from Cup of Russia thread at goldenskate: Today, 09:32 PM #589
Mirunna  Mirunna is online now
Medalist
Join Date
Jul 2009
Location
Bucharest, Romania
Posts
1,887

3  Thumbs Up!
Protocol time: Evgenia's glorious and evident FLUTZ got 1.4 GOE. I am sorry, but Mao's FLUTZ is aesthetically more pleasing  she should be getting at least +2 then  
Rika's both 3Lz attempts (from an edge perspective) looked better to me and yet she got "e" on both.

I like Evgenia but this is obviously unfair.

It doesn't look like Mao or other Japanese women will be scored fairly.  Hopefully, Mao will go into her Sochi LP / Nocturne at Worlds mode.

In addition  to the advantageous tech calls discussed above, the Russian skaters in the top 3 got AT LEAST 7 -9 points higher in PCS in the LP than every skater below them. This is nothing against the skaters who are doing their honest best, but the way they are evaluated.

Rika got 5 points lower PCS in her LP and Elena got over 3 points higher in her LP compared to Cup of China. That is a huge and in my view inexplicable variation in only 2 weeks.       

Elena skated well with emotion, though I admit I don't  like her style much, and ends up with 211 just barely lower than Mao's score at Worlds with 2 triple axels and her PCS score is now within 1 point of Mao in the LP. I don't agree with this at all! I think there should be more than 5 points difference in PCS in the LP alone, Fight hard Mao! I will be pulling for you!


Last edited by WowMao on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:18 am

Here is a really nice quote that MaoRussianFan posted from Elena Radinova.    

Some quotes about Mao from last interview with Radionova (sorry for my English)

Who do you the like the most in the first phase of the season?
- Mao. She looked so beautiful as always! Doesn’t matter that her LP didn't turn out quite as planned, she won. I treat her with the utmost respect!

Surprisingly, almost all of Russia's figure skaters and their coaches are beginning to respond to this question with admiration for Mao Asada
- That's for sure. She skates beautifully. jumping a triple axel, even more since she came back after a break. It is very difficult. She deserves great respect for that.


Last edited by WowMao on Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:42 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:16 am

I have posted this before, but I just found it again. It is a 2 part press conference with Mao just after Worlds 2007 where she gave such a great and inspirational free skate performance. There is a translation in subtitles. She is so adorable here, but there are definitely some inappropriate questions.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDK4UHABzG8

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qePa0B7Jo_w

Brief comments by Mao after winning the Grand Prix Final in 2008 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4FzArV3ovE

Here is a really good interview from July with Russian subtitles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiH8pfU51Bk
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WowMao
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 415
Join date : 2014-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:39 am

Thanks to rosewood for posting this article by Midori Ito about Mao. I think Midori is one of the reasons that Mao came back because Midori was her childhood hero, Midori encouraged Mao to come back when they had an interview and Midori also made a comeback. Here are her comments about Mao:

Midori's article about Mao at CoC. (I'm still catching up CoC. hehe I wish I'll finish posting info about CoC before NHK starts.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTPQwI5UkAAtu7q.jpg

One and only presence technically and artistically
Her 3A is reaching the high quality finished form. Her ideal timing and rhythm are sinking into her body. Besides, whether she executs the jump successfully or not, she can cool down and analyze the jump. It makes her capable of going back on the right track even if she made mistakes. That helps her a lot in competitions.

The reworking on skating skills and jump techniques under Coach Sato since after Vancouver Olys is paying off. The underrotated 3-3 will be completed by continuing doing it in competitions.

Her skating has matured tastes which only 25 yo skater can own. I really felt she is one and only skater. She delivers what only she can do technically and artistically. I think she is mastering her own ultimate skating. It was her comeback GP event. She won it under the tremendous pressures that the whole world was watching her. After all she proved she is extremely talented. Although she made mistakes in the long program, she appealed she still possesses abilities to win Worlds again.

The one year break didn't work negative for her. It rather worked positive as a good rest. She showed this good skates at her very first competition. Also she found out the things to work on which is helpful to prepare for coming competitions. I'm expecting a magnificent skate in the end of this season. This competition gave me a big expectation.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
ballerinamao
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan
avatar

Posts : 2262
Join date : 2010-08-10
Location : denmark

PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:55 am

WowMao wrote:
Thanks to rosewood for posting this article by Midori Ito about Mao. I think Midori is one of the reasons that Mao came back because Midori was her childhood hero, Midori encouraged Mao to come back when they had an interview and Midori also made a comeback. Here are her comments about Mao:

Midori's article about Mao at CoC. (I'm still catching up CoC. hehe I wish I'll finish posting info about CoC before NHK starts.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTPQwI5UkAAtu7q.jpg

One and only presence technically and artistically
Her 3A is reaching the high quality finished form. Her ideal timing and rhythm are sinking into her body. Besides, whether she executs the jump successfully or not, she can cool down and analyze the jump. It makes her capable of going back on the right track even if she made mistakes. That helps her a lot in competitions.

The reworking on skating skills and jump techniques under Coach Sato since after Vancouver Olys is paying off. The underrotated 3-3 will be completed by continuing doing it in competitions.

Her skating has matured tastes which only 25 yo skater can own. I really felt she is one and only skater. She delivers what only she can do technically and artistically. I think she is mastering her own ultimate skating. It was her comeback GP event. She won it under the tremendous pressures that the whole world was watching her. After all she proved she is extremely talented. Although she made mistakes in the long program, she appealed she still possesses abilities to win Worlds again.

The one year break didn't work negative for her. It rather worked positive as a good rest. She showed this good skates at her very first competition. Also she found out the things to work on which is helpful to prepare for coming competitions. I'm expecting a magnificent skate in the end of this season. This competition gave me a big expectation.

     

Thanks for posting Midoris comments about Mao, it was really interesting to read, and i agree with her analyzes, and especially when it comes to her comments about the 3A
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!   

Back to top Go down
 
Mao News - The 2015-2016 Season!
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 5 of 8Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 Similar topics
-
» 2015-2016 Premier League Season
» Pro 12 2015-2016 dates confirmed
» Winter Open Pike match dates for 2015/2016
» Europa League 2015/2016
» Liverpool FC 2015/2016

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Ballerina on Ice :: Figure Skating :: Mao Chat-
Jump to: