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 MAO AND MOROZOV?????

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juliet
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PostSubject: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:59 pm

MAO AND MOROZOV....I've read somewhere - Gallagher of Japan Times.....about some suggestions of Mao taking Morozov as a coach. for me, I don't think it's right because of some feud created between him and Takahashi. I don't want the same thing to happen to Mao and I don't want Mao to get involved with someone where his reputation has preceded himself. And with the level Mao is in, I think she respects and loves TT, and I don't think she has the time to adjust and readjust to other coach's style and schedule.
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:21 am

Considering that I heard that Mao had already renewed her contract with TAT, I don't think that this arrangement is likely. Also, Gallagher is only suggesting that it might be a better coaching option for Mao as Morozov is more accessible than TAT. So, no worries. Very Happy

I am more concerned with the great difference between Mao and Yuna's practice hours each week. Mao finds confidence in practicing for longer hours. If it is true that this season she's been training less to accomodate TAT's schedule and form of training, it may explain why her triple/triples have been so unstable all season.

For those interested, the article is here:

"Time for Mao to consider Morozov"

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/sp20090405it.html Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:26 am

The feud wasn't so much between Nikolai and Daisuke and between Nikolai and Daisuke's Daisuke's agent Tak Ihara. According to Morozov, Ihara tried to intervene too much into Daisuke's training process (reportedly, valuing money over competitive results, he made Daisuke participate into too many shows so that Daisuke was burned out by the time the important competition came and handled his affairs poorly (there was some problem with Daisuke's boots at Worlds 08 which Dai's agent was supposed to take care of and didn't)).

However, even after they parted ways, Morozov remained fond of Daisuke in interviews. In at least two he praised Daisuke's worth ethic and talent. In one he said that it was perhaps a good thing that they parted, because he had already taught Daisuke everything he knew. (I'll link the interview later).

One thing that was a PR failure was the case of crossed wires concerning taking on Nobunari as a new pupil - Morozov said that he informed Daisuke's agent about his intent to accept a new skater, Dai said that he learned about the fact when JSF officially announced Nobu that Nobu switched coaches. However, I think that Nikolai has learned from it and next time, before accepting a new student (Fumie) he personally discussed it with Miki, her secondary coach and her mother.

A lot of people at FSU seem to love to bash Morozov; either for his stormy love life in his younger days, too generic choreography or some PR failures like falling out with Tatiana a few years ago. Personally I could care less about somebody's love life from a few years ago; I find that his programs are recently becoming more creative and different (how is Cyber Swan Lake similar to Chairman's Waltz or Fanfan?); and he patched most of his PR failures (and made up with Tatiana). I find that the most likely case of the outbursts of anti-Morozov feeling is the fact that his skaters often win over the haters' personal favourites and they find it too bitter a pill to swallow.

What's more, outside of FSU Morozov seems to have a really good opinion as a coach who can bring out a potential out of skater, even if the skater isn't exactly in a prime form. Gallagher wasn't the first who suggested Mao switching to Morozov - I've read a lot of similar suggestions on YT. Actually, when I heard about the rumour that JSF suggested that Mao should switch coaches my first thought was that they wanted to repeat the history from the last Olympics and push Mao to Morozov.

Now, do I think that Mao should switch to Nikolai?

Hell, no, I don't think it would be a good idea at all.

To begin with, Morozov already has a lot of pupils. Miki, Nobu, Fumie and the Reeds were on the Japanese Worlds Team this season, Daisuke Murakami has the potential to be on the Junior Worlds team, and then there are the others. Not only Morozov would probably have to spilt himself to attend to all the skaters (already nearly all of his skaters work with an assistant coach), but also there is the issue that both Fumie and Miki would have been Mao's direct competitors.

To follow, Miki's not in the same situation as Shizuka. Shizuka many times said that she simply disliked to compete; she preferred show skating and after winning Worlds lost the motivation to go on. She didn't have any serious technical problems; what she needed was a set of more exciting programs and motivation.
Mao is in the middle of changing her jump technique and it never goes smoothly. Forcing her to change coach at this point wouldn't do her any good, IMHO, because it would take time for the new coach to learn to work with Mao, to get to know her training habits, her abilities, to recognize at what point she is in changing her technique and to find out a successful strategy to continue fixing it.

And thirdly, as Morozov recently keeps on repeating, he enjoys the most working with those skaters who have already been written off (no potential, too old, too inconsistent, too much of a nutcase) and Mao is none of those things. I doubt Nikolai would feel challenged enough training Mao. Hell, no!



Going back for one second to the issue of the agents/the JSF interfering in the training process too much... Morozov repeated this again this year (referring especially to Mao). Other skaters (like Brian Joubert) also said that sometimes the skater needs to make a decision: more shows now or victory later.
I think it's a really important point. Look at the difference between YuNa's and Mao's preparation for Worlds. YuNa participated in only one show; she even skipped her own Nationals.
Mao competed at Nationals, took part in Medalists in Ice, Japanese Skating Challenge, Japanese Stars on Ice, Nagoya Fes, the show at her own rink, then in 4CC. I'm not surprised at all that she was exhausted at 4CC and Worlds (and I don't think that coming to 4CC was a smart idea either, as I mentioned many times before. Miki, who could barely jump after Nationals didn't appear at 4CC and spend her time wisely to prepare for Worlds). What's more, while YuNa was just working on keeping and polishing the skills she had, Mao had to work on things that were new to her.
Many mention Michelle Kwan's longevity as a competitor; but the truth is that in the later years of her career she kept skipping even the GP series.

Of course, Mao is the household name and probably no one brings more people to the shows in Japan than her; and we are all happy to see Mao perform. But I hope that Mao's schedule will be handled more wisely next season. It's ridiculous to blame the coach for not preparing the skater properly when the skater in question might have had no time to prepare properly at all. Unconscious
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:54 am

To Okami - "too much of a nutcase"?! lol! There are a few odd ones out there, eh? Any particular ones in mind?
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:02 am

Thank you so much SNOWDROPS24 and OKAMI. It's very vivid, the brilliance and the exquisite artistry of MAO should be more cared for and whoever is handling all her affairs should be lucky because she exceptionally doesn't put her talent to waste - she values every moment, every decision on and off the ice, always acts and behaves properly with everybody around her. It is always gratifying to know that MAO is definitely PRECIOUS and should not be taken for granted.
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:30 am

chineseteacup wrote:
To Okami - "too much of a nutcase"?! lol! There are a few odd ones out there, eh? Any particular ones in mind?

lol! Oops, I made it sound funny! By using the word "nutcase" I didn't mean that the skaters were crazy weirdos or something Laugh, I just got used to the FSU-ish manner of using this word; that is, to describe a skater who has all the qualities to be a contender and not suffering from injuries, yet constantly underperforming. And by "underperforming" I mean popping, splatting or otherwise messing up jumps in the program, or having some spectacular mishaps in the steps or spins with no other visible reason than nerves or lack of confidence. Basically, if after nearly every performance of the skater in question the thread was littered with " "s, then the skater sooner or later was labeled as a nutcase (or, more nicely, a headcase) and encouraged to have his/her head fixed sometime soon. Sweatdrop

Daisuke Takahashi used to be the most famous "glass ace". Here's his LP from TEB 2004:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVyIVk2tU1s
He was great in SP, landing a 4-3 and skating clean, then in LP he just totally self-destructed - not a single jump clean. Sad
...Carolina Kostner boldly challenged Daisuke for the title at Worlds, it seems... silent Though, who knows, maybe her problems were more physical than mental.
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:55 am

Quote :
Going back for one second to the issue of the agents/the JSF interfering in the training process too much... Morozov repeated this again this year (referring especially to Mao). Other skaters (like Brian Joubert) also said that sometimes the skater needs to make a decision: more shows now or victory later.
I think it's a really important point. Look at the difference between YuNa's and Mao's preparation for Worlds. YuNa participated in only one show; she even skipped her own Nationals.
Mao competed at Nationals, took part in Medalists in Ice, Japanese Skating Challenge, Japanese Stars on Ice, Nagoya Fes, the show at her own rink, then in 4CC. I'm not surprised at all that she was exhausted at 4CC and Worlds (and I don't think that coming to 4CC was a smart idea either, as I mentioned many times before. Miki, who could barely jump after Nationals didn't appear at 4CC and spend her time wisely to prepare for Worlds). What's more, while YuNa was just working on keeping and polishing the skills she had, Mao had to work on things that were new to her.
Many mention Michelle Kwan's longevity as a competitor; but the truth is that in the later years of her career she kept skipping even the GP series.

Of course, Mao is the household name and probably no one brings more people to the shows in Japan than her; and we are all happy to see Mao perform. But I hope that Mao's schedule will be handled more wisely next season. It's ridiculous to blame the coach for not preparing the skater properly when the skater in question might have had no time to prepare properly at all.

Thank you Okami for sharing your thoughts on Mao's preparation for worlds. You put things into perspective for me. I had always been puzzled by Mao's condition after nationals. Her emotional condition seemed fine; she struggled with underrotations again in her FS but she seemed more or less, her usual self. With all the ice shows she participated in, her tightly packed schedule, no wonder she was burnt out. I had always taken for granted that she was a hardworking skater who loves practicing, so I did not for once doubted that her performance at 4cc and worlds had to do with her failing to prepare fully. I'm sure she practiced - a lot too. But she needs an extended period of time to get rested, refocus, pick up motivation, get comfortable with her program and choreography and prepare herself mentally to withstand the pressure to defend her title at worlds.

If the above is truly what indirectly cost Mao's title, I must say I will feel pretty pissed off - very, in fact. I can understand how a skater's performance is affected by reasons like injury or motivation. These are factors that cannot be helped at times. They just happen. But a skater's time schedule is NOT. You can plan it, control it and avoid making the same mistake that Daisuke made with his agent. The more I write, the more irritated I become. As a fan of figure skating OR any sport, my utmost hope is for athletes to deliver their full potential and hard work on ice. Being put down by factors such as the above is just very frustrating. If Mao is not having troubles financially to support her training/family, she really should cut down the number of shows she's attending this summer. Mao is a gentle and kindred spirit. I love her for that and I love to see her perform her EX. But IF, (only IF), IF this is really what's been affecting her condition, she needs to speak up before it affects her preparation for the Olympics - the price will be very costly. Very Mad

ETA: Not to mention that TAT will be blamed for things that JSF/Mao's agents/(even) Mao should be responsible for.

Now, I am hoping that I will not see Mao as much in the summer ice shows and TV as last year. Because this will mean she is either focusing on her training, spending time with her family and rest or doing what she thinks is necessary to prepare herself for next season. Very Happy


Last edited by snowdrops24 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:16 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:00 am

When TAT was coaching Sasha,they had real fights about the shows Suspect TAT was against them, and Sasha wanted to make money,we know how it all ended.
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:14 am

>Okami
Quote :
Now, do I think that Mao should switch to Nikolai?

Hell, no, I don't think it would be a good idea at all.

I totally agree with you! lol!
I cannot imagine at all that Mao doing face draggings during her performances...nor Morozov whispering to her ear so closely at Kiss and Cry!!

I think their colors are totally different.
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:32 am

snowdrops24 wrote:

For those interested, the article is here:

"Time for Mao to consider Morozov"

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/sp20090405it.html Very Happy
Time for Mao to consider Morozov, by Jack Gallaher. Sponsored by Nikolai Morozov.
It seems this is not the first time Jack puts commercials in his texts. Smile
Third of the article is dedicated to highlighting Morozov's selling points, the only thing Jack forgot to mention, why exactly he considers the 4th place of Mao as a result of seemingly little training time with TAT.
Why, Jack, indeed? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:13 pm

snowdrops24 wrote:

Now, I am hoping that I will not see Mao as much in the summer ice shows and TV as last year. Because this will mean she is either focusing on her training, spending time with her family and rest or doing what she thinks is necessary to prepare herself for next season. Very Happy

Okami knows that I respectfully disagree with this... Sweatdrop In 2007-08, Mao did ALL the same ice shows between Nationals and 4CC, she went on to win 4CC with two almost flawless skates, and then she went on to win Worlds after having an ankle injury! WOW!

Yes, perhaps she was tired this season, but I don't think it's anything she could not handle.

I think there's something else that happened or changed about Mao this season that we don't fully understand.

Maybe it was the pressure of being world champion. At least last season, the attention was somewhat split between Mao and Miki, and the media did not hype the Mao vs Yu-Na battle so much. Although Mao claims she's not affected by the media, surely on a subconscious level, it must influence her.

Maybe it was completing her goals too early. Last season, the goal was to win Worlds. This season, the goal was 2 triple axels, add the salchow, add the lutz. All three things were accomplished by the Grand Prix Final. And she beat Yu-Na Kim at home in Korea. Really, what could have been sweeter than that?

Maybe not being with TAT all the time, or having the JSF/media suggesting she get a new coach is wearing on her. Who knows?

What continues to puzzle me though, is what happened to Mao at Japan Nationals. In the interviews, she said that she was in her very best condition, but in the free skate, she just looked SO TIRED!

So maybe it was mental exhaustion, rather than physical exhaustion. Hopefully her studying sports psychology will help with that. Cheering

As for Mao and Morozov: I'm sort of shocked that Jack Gallagher would suggest that. But then again, back in February he did say "maybe TAT won't be Mao's coach, since she didn't come to 4CC." Oh Jack, I thought you were better than that. Neutral

At any rate, I think it is 100% a bad idea.

I will say this though - *if*, and this is a big IF, Mao ever decided that the relationship with TAT wasn't working - that she needed a full time coach, but wouldn't move to Russia - then I think it would be very, very hard for Mao to say this, even if she thought it, because Mao knows that TAT love her so much, and Mao would hate to break her heart...pale

But hopefully it never gets to that point!

I've never questioned the part-time coaching that Mao and TAT have going on, but maybe I should? This is *PURELY HYPOTHETICAL* - I think it would be impossible for TAT to move to Japan, but would Mao move to Moscow? What do you guys think? Question

Or if they did split up, who do you think Mao would go to? Do you think Coach Yamada would be able to coach her?
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:17 pm

I think that moving to Moscow is a good idea, because it would be easier to work with TAT and also media wouldn't hurt her too much.
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:47 pm

Oh god, I just remembered this! At the very beginning of Mao Asada, Miracle Seventeen, it describes Mao practicing all by herself at the Chuukyou university rink, after just getting back from Moscow. And who is watching her? Morozov. WOW!

I wonder if that's what's been behind Mao's inner turmoil all along - people in the JSF telling her to find a full-time coach, pushing her to go to Morozov, and all the time she's wanted TAT, loves TAT, won't leave her...hmm... Suspect Of course this is pure speculation... Sweatdrop
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:29 pm

Speculation or not, I get this strange and creepy feeling about Morozov. Still the same, Morozov is not trustworthy.....
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:54 pm

Batsuchan wrote:
Oh god, I just remembered this! At the very beginning of Mao Asada, Miracle Seventeen, it describes Mao practicing all by herself at the Chuukyou university rink, after just getting back from Moscow. And who is watching her? Morozov. WOW!

I can just imagine it now... Mao-chan skating all by herself while Morozov staring at her from a distance. With his hair greased and slicked back, he follows her every glide on the ice with his eyes while he rubs his hands in glee, smiling. *shiver*

Seriously, Mao should just stick with Tarasova and not even give Morozov a second thought. His reputation precedes him and I don't even wanna think what he's capable of doing should Mao train under him.
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:50 am

Batsuchan, you just remind me one thing. Where is miki training these days? Japan or US? I remember that the new sub-rink in Chuukyo University is mainly built for mao and miki. and Morozov's training base is in New Jersey. It is really hard for me to imagine that Morozov watched Mao when Mao was training......Under what circumstance did Morozov watch mao's training? Was miki also in the rink?
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:56 am

tianrushui wrote:
Batsuchan, you just remind me one thing. Where is miki training these days? Japan or US? I remember that the new sub-rink in Chuukyo University is mainly built for mao and miki. and Morozov's training base is in New Jersey. It is really hard for me to imagine that Morozov watched Mao when Mao was training......Under what circumstance did Morozov watch mao's training? Was miki also in the rink?

Morozov sometimes takes his entire team to Japan (actually, 90% of his skaters are Japanese anyway, so... Laughing ) and they practice on the same rink as Mao (though at different sessions, probably). There were a few fluffs made about the Morozov Team and they were shown skating at the Chuukyo University rink.
Miki's training both in Japan and in USA. Morozov also often takes his team to other training locations. For example, when Oda struggled with skating at altitude in Obersdorf Morozov took his entire team to a training camp in Andorra (also located at altitude).

Quote :
I can just imagine it now... Mao-chan skating all by herself while Morozov staring at her from a distance. With his hair greased and slicked back, he follows her every glide on the ice with his eyes while he rubs his hands in glee, smiling. *shiver*

My grandfather and father have been sporting the "slicked-back" hairdo since they turned 20 and I don't really think it's creepy... Who, me?

Morozov speaks well of Mao and I think it's unfair to him to black-mouth him behind his back. While some coaches are all too eager to speak ill of the direct competitiors of their own skaters Morozov said that Mao should be rewarded for the difficulty of putting 2 triple axels in her program, not penalized; and that she should not be harrassed by the media. He does observe other skaters a lot - not just Mao, but also YuNa and other skaters. He recognizes their good points and tries to make his skaters improve as well. I strongly doubt whether he's all that gleeful about it, though - for example, he can do nothing to improve Miki's posture and flexibility to match Mao's - Miki's back/shoulder injuries prevent it.

I think that the discussion about whether or not Mao should switch coaches is moot anyway - Mao has already prolonged her contract with TAT, and Morozov said that starting from this season he will no longer work with direct competitiors of his own skaters (not even on just choreography).
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:39 am

Quote :
My grandfather and father have been sporting the "slicked-back" hairdo since they turned 20 and I don't really think it's creepy... Who, me?

Morozov speaks well of Mao and I think it's unfair to him to black-mouth him behind his back. While some coaches are all too eager to speak ill of the direct competitiors of their own skaters Morozov said that Mao should be rewarded for the difficulty of putting 2 triple axels in her program, not penalized; and that she should not be harrassed by the media. He does observe other skaters a lot - not just Mao, but also YuNa and other skaters. He recognizes their good points and tries to make his skaters improve as well.

Well, I was being sarcastic with a satirical response, so you didn't have to take what I wrote literally. Neutral And unless your father and grandpa coach figure skating and have a "reputation" like him, it's unfair of you to compare them with him, even if they do also sport slicked back hair.

He is a very competent coach and we know how he helped Arakawa to get the Gold in the Olympics. But the fact remains that his reputation precedes him, and it really creeps me out at the thought of him working with Mao. If people talk about him behind his back, it certainly nobody else's fault but his. People are people. That's just human nature. At any rate, I'm all for Mao's continued tutelage under Tarasova. I hope they can work something out so Mao can log more hours in training to prepare her for the Olympics. Moving to Russia seems to be her best option, if they can work something with her university.
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:14 pm

I don't know can I ask this but I'll try,about what reputation are you talking guys? I really don't know anything about it! Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:14 pm

Quote :
have a "reputation" like him

And what is that reputation, I wonder?

From what I've read, people usually have problem with:

- his love life in the past.
I don't see how it's anybody's business; there are people who made much worse mess of their love life. Some of the rumours (like marrying Navka in order to represent Belarus) are not 100% reliable.

- working with his skaters' competitors just to get more fame.
The main complaint of some fans is that Morozov had a quarrel with Tatiana because he wanted to work with the competitor of one of their skaters. I find it suspicious, because:
Quote :
VN: Do you students ever become jealous? For example, how did Shizuka feel about the fact that you were making programs for Kwan?

Tatiana T: I didn’t ask her. It is my profession - to help skaters. I’ve never swore that I would work only with one of them. I do what I can and what is interesting for me. I don’t go after any of the skaters, don’t “grab them by the hands”. I hardly speak any foreign language. But if somebody needs me, they manage to get my phone number, just the way Michelle Kwan did.
(http://www.goldskate.ru/media/tarasova_eng.shtml) <--- as we can see, at that time Tatiana had no problems with choreographing programs for other skaters.
Secondly:
Quote :
In an interview Tatiana Tarasova said about me: "I achieved everything in skating, I didn't just raise champions, the main thing is I brought up a coach." It was very nice to hear that.
(http://www.itogi.ru/sport/2008/51/135780.html) This interview is fairly recent, and TAT and Morozov seem to get along just fine. When Yags was planning a comeback a year or so ago, he said that he had already talked to TAT and Morozov and they agreed to team up again to train him, if his hip will be able to withstand jumping after the surgery. (Sadly, while he regained some of his jumps it wasn't enough for a comeback). Also, I noticed that in figure skating events Tatiana and Nikolai often hang out together. If they had fallen out for one reason or another, they seem to made up a long time ago.
And thirdly, what fame? We could say that he was starved for fame if he kept picking skating celebrities and crowd favorite. Instead he chose Miki Ando, who at the time was being totally bashed by media for her failure at Olympics; Nobunari Oda, in even worse situation and mentally unstable, and Fumie "please-retire-already" Suguri (some of the fans' opinion, not mine, I love Fumie Smile ). Not to mention the "unknowns" like Dice M or the Reeds. A lot of his skaters turned into contenders, but they hadn't exactly been considered as such at the time when they turned to him.

- programs lacking transitions.
A complaint mostly aimed at Miki, who, frankly speaking, is more often than not injured, and she probably simply can't handle too complex choreography.

- being too controlling
At the beginning of his career Morozov really liked to have a 100% control of his skater; his training, muisc choice, costumes, etc. This is no longer the case. Now nearly each of his students has a secondary coach, ballet coach, physical trainer. They are also allowed to suggest or choose their own music. Nobunari's programs were even choreographed by Lori Nichol this season. Fumie and Miki personally choose their music.

- openly considering himself a good coach.
While he openly states that he has good results working with his students, he does not consider himself an alpha and omega, contrary to popular belief. He praises other coaches often (especially TAT) and wishes that people would understand and appreciate the role of the coach more.
Quote :
When you are a coach, you have the athlete's fate in your hands. It is good if their careers go well, they become famous, earn money. But if not, their lives are broken. So that is why I'm 24-7 on the ice, if not physically, then mentally. Only someone who has been through a good school can manage it. For example, Tatiana Tarasova always has this approach - she lives the life of her students. In my view that is a real coach. Sometimes it seems that all you did is breaking down in front of your eyes. Only experience can help you keep it together. "Calm, everything will sort out." Students should always see their coach collected and confident." - Morozov, from the article in Russian linked above.
He also said that even if he lived 60 years, his knowledge still wouldn't compare to Tatiana's. And seriously, anyone who thinks that what Morozov is saying can be considered as bragging should listen to Mishin sometimes. There's no comparison.

- molesting his students in K&C.
If the students are happy about that, it's really not other people's business.. If they were not happy about that, they could just change coaches.

misokatsu wrote:
If people talk about him behind his back, it certainly nobody else's fault but his.

This is certainly not true! A lot of hateful talk is born from misunderstanding and jealousy. Quite a lot of people on FSU and YT talk about "the Black Mark of Tarasova" - that she is too harsh and demanding, that she destroys her students emotionally and gives them weird programs and silly outfits. (Even Kurt Browning openly admitted that he's not that fond of TAT.) Does the fact that people keep bringing it up makes it true? Certainly not!
Morozov and TAT are easy victims of the black talk: cultural differences, language barrier... What's more, it seems to me that just as the war between the Korean and Japanese fans is intense because of the political past between two coutries, the Western media and fans take out their frustration about political struggles with Russia on the Russian coaches. In my opinion, rather unjustly. I try to follow all the news very closely; I read interviews, the opinions of the skaters and watch clips; and some of the things that the fans or even media come up with just completely surprise me.

For example, at GPF Tracy come up with the idea that after the failure at TEB Tatiana and Mao decided to concentrate on jumps only, extending the hours of Mao's jumps practice and ignoring the rest. SHe was completely wrong - while Mao spent some time working on jumps with Tatiana she eventually went back to the training regime suggested by TAT, and certainly didn't concentrate on jumps only.

Some fan at FSU said that after the LP Oda was so disgusted with Morozov that he threw him out of the K&C. Completely misinterpreted as well - Nobunari was angry at himself because he missed sleep last night and it influenced his skating. He did not ask Morozov to leave, Nikolai left because he had to attend his other skaters. And finally, Nobunari praised Morozov a lot in the interview after his victory. He said that he was really struggling with the lack of self-confidence and thought he was no good, but Morozov said to him "Don't worry, Nobu. You are great as you are!", and so, Nobunari was able to skate with more self-confidence.

Both Tracy and the fan just grasped some fact and without knowing the context they made up their own stories. And perhaps some other people believed in them. Personally, I prefer to check my facts. study
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:16 pm

Oscilla wrote:
Entire post + Both Tracy and the fan just grasped some fact and without knowing the context they made up their own stories. And perhaps some other people believed in them. Personally, I prefer to check my facts. study
Wonderful post Oscilla! All I have to say is, developing some level of media literacy goes a LONG way. Wink I have to say I am a bit amused at the level of disdain concerning Morozov in the NAmerican community, because he is held in very high regard in Japan and Europe, which again hints to Oscilla's thesis of cultural differences and misunderstandings.

Like a Star @ heaven I'll also add that almost half of the information Tracy Wilson spouts during the CBC broadcasts are inaccurate or only addresses half of the truth, so it's best to take anything she yaps with a grain of salt. Who, me? Again, the key to all of this is having media literacy! Like a Star @ heaven

And I also agree with Batsuchan in that there's another thing going on beyond just the "too many shows/competition" argument - which also seems to be the popular sentiment in Japan - brought up against Mao. Yes, Miki did not participate in 4CC, but she had a thigh injury coming into Worlds (easily noticed by the lack of extension on her cross-catchfoot spiral that competition) that the argument of 4CC draining the energy of skaters seems a bit "off" to me. It certainly didn't seem to drain the U.S. skaters who have just as many shows to participate in - none of them as big a crowd as their Japanese counterparts - while their Nats are being held in January (to top it off, some skaters like Rachael Flatt are full-time students with a heavy workload of multiple AP courses too).

We may have to wait until Mao Asada, Miracle Eighteen hits the shelves but I do feel it is partly mental. Mao's main goals this season were not to ace Worlds, but adjust to her new training regime and style, in addition to winning her 3rd Nats title, and land the 2 3A's in competition. Once all that were completed, I can't help but feel that Mao went on "energy-saver" mode to do so-so for the remaining competitions but more importantly to stay injury free for Olys, which is what she is really working for at this point.

I may be wrong, of course. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:03 pm

Quote :
- molesting his students in K&C.
If the students are happy about that, it's really not other people's business.. If they were not happy about that, they could just change coaches.
Somehow, I'm uncomfortable with this statement of yours. It kinda sounds like you condone molesting of skaters as long as they're "happy" about it and since it's nobody else's business. There is an ethical teacher-student code of conduct, and in schools in the US a teacher can get into jail for crossing the line with his student on that. You can argue that if the skater is an adult it's legal, but still the abuse of authority is still there along with it possibly causing a scandal.

Quote :
Quote :
If people talk about him behind his back, it certainly nobody else's fault but his.
This is certainly not true! A lot of hateful talk is born from misunderstanding and jealousy.
Well, after that sentence I also wrote "People are people. That's just human nature." My point was that, a coach should be careful of his image and not do anything that could arouse misunderstandings. Like in this video where it shows toward the end him and Miki getting too familiar. I'm not saying that him or other Russian coaches should stop with all the kissing and hugging, just pointing out instances where actions can be easily misconstrued. And quite a few people gave a negative reaction to that video. It surely doesn't help that his past includes marrying a former student.

I agree there are many cases where coaches are unfairly berated and criticized out of ill-will or misunderstanding. Truly they don't deserve that. What I was just trying to say was that they should be conscious of their images and behaviors, too, and try their best to be tactful and decent. People have eyes and ears; they will talk about what they see and hear, be they falsehoods or not, whether it's fair to the coach or not. Additionally, it's also the skater who gets caught in the mire when such things happen.

I'd be willing to give Morozov the benefit of the doubt, knowing he's a very competent trainer. But I'm sure I'm not the only one here who thinks he's a little too touch-feely, cultural differences aside, with Miki. Here's wishing he can help her get an Olympic medal next year.
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:28 pm

Excuse me, but Morozov is not married now????? If not, Oh no he can become a OOKAMI!!!(Wolf) affraid
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:33 pm

I find it really weird that hugging, of all things, seems to be the problem here. Laughing It wouldn't even come to my mind to perceive it as "wrong", and I thought that when people mentioned "molesting", it was just a joke.

I think it's really a cultural thing. I got hugged and kissed on both cheeks by my family/friends/classmates/close teachers so many times that it would be impossible to count. It would never come to my mind to treat it as a sexual thing, it's just a show of affection and trust. I think it would feel rather weird if I was suddenly confronted with a culture where hugging is a no-no. People would seem rather cold and aloof to me, and I would immediately feel rejected and alien.

Maybe if Morozov somehow singled out Miki, I would feel suspicious. But he treats his other students the same, and his students interact between themselves (and other people) in the same manner.
Nobu&Morozov: http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard01msc.jpg
Nobu & Miki hugging backstage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGLI0w7Ao0U
Not to mention rolling on top of Miki in K&C at JSC 2009... ROTFLMAO
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PostSubject: Re: MAO AND MOROZOV?????   Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:42 pm

misokatsu wrote:
Somehow, I'm uncomfortable with this statement of yours. It kinda sounds like you condone molesting of skaters as long as they're "happy" about it and since it's nobody else's business. There is an ethical teacher-student code of conduct, and in schools in the US a teacher can get into jail for crossing the line with his student on that. You can argue that if the skater is an adult it's legal, but still the abuse of authority is still there along with it possibly causing a scandal.

I'd be willing to give Morozov the benefit of the doubt, knowing he's a very competent trainer. But I'm sure I'm not the only one here who thinks he's a little too touch-feely, cultural differences aside, with Miki. Here's wishing he can help her get an Olympic medal next year.
And I'm uncomfortable with yours. There always seem to be some backlash with this underage issue in the States that verges on idiotic (e.g. uproar in the online community when Milo Ventimiglia of Heroes started dating Hayden Panettiere publicly after she "waited" to hit legal age). I'm sorry but I don't see anything in Morovoz's current K&C clips that scream "uncomfortable" or sexually abusive. Is he on the touchy side and hugs his students? Definitely. But to suggest the possibility of his indecency through just that seems rather paranoid to me, sorry. Even if it isn't, such train of thought just feels like an all too apparent confirmation bias, regardless of his love life in his earlier years, which in all honesty is nobody's business save for his own and the parties who were directly involved in them. Suspect

And if THAT is considered touchy-feely, what Tat or Robin Wagner (who isn't Russian, just in case anyone gets confused here Laugh ) do in the K&C with their students is even more so. But of course, it's not that big a deal, because we all know molesters and predators are all "male." Lalala~ Who, me? Rolling Eyes Who, me? Rolling Eyes

As far as the gossip and misunderstandings go, again I repeat: media literacy. Let the ignorant and gullible spread whatever venom they have buzzing in their heads, but for those with tact and common sense to discern fact from fiction. Wink

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