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Lady_in_black
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:08 am

ballerinamao wrote:
I haven't seen the program yet but hearing how she got 129 for a skate that's filled with all kind of mistakes on the jumps, with her non-jump elements beeing level 1,2,3, it really makes me laugh when i think of the the crazy PCS she got, that doesn't reflect her performance, now i really look forward to see the free skate!

I really hope this insane scores where only given because it was B-competition!

She got level 4 for steps and one of her spins, level 3 and level 1 for the other two spins, but with big GOE. And she had 5 clean triples and a 2A to go along. She had 2 errors on only 2 jumping passes. It was far from a disaster. 129 is a big score but not that outrageous
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:34 am

I just watched her fs, well i still find it VERY outrages, to get that score with a fall and alot of popped jumps, with non-jump elements level 1,2,3,4. another thing that really made me puzzled was her footwork it didn't look like footwork more like choreography, the goe she got was crazy, notice there was no difficult entrance or exit, no height, her combo has lost the weight it used to have, so where the hell does her crazy goe and PCS come from?

sorry but this really makes me sick, she got the same score as Mao, through Mao skated lights out, landed 6 triples got level 4 on all her non-jump elements. her score is an insult to every skater competing!
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:36 am

Lady_in_black wrote:
I have no problem with her getting full credit for them. About her knee bend, she always did it, watch for example her SP from 2009 worlds. It's not distracting however.

Oh, sorry for the confusion! I didn't mean the knee bend was bad looking (as far as I know, it doesn't seem to make much difference on how successful the jump is). It was the leaning forward with the free leg reaching very far that I was worried about.
Yuna used to keep her torso fairly upright during her Lz/F jumps, which made them have nice ice coverage and good speed out of the jump:

(Sorry for the bad pic. It's from the Olympic practice - the best angle I could find. In the actual competition the 3-3 combos were filmed from behind, and it doesn't show the body position as well.)

Now she bends forward a lot, especially during the 3Lz-3T combo and 3F out of steps (solo jumps with no preceeding steps look better). Comparison of Mao in 2009 and YuNa now:

From Wikipedia: Another notable technique flaw that appears in many skaters' flips (and Lutz jumps) is "hammer toe," which occurs when the free leg rises unusually high, typically near (in some cases above) hip height, before descending to strike the ice. This can make the jump easier to rotate but sacrifices height and some control.

It's not the issue of looking right - in fact, Sasha's and Mao's jumps were praised for looking exquisite and light before the judges started looking into the jumping technique more closely,, but now it is officialy recognized as a technique flaw, which was why Mao, Caro-Z and many other skaters started working on fixing their technique (and why Kanako gets bad GoEs even if she lands her 3F).

(ETA: Actually, my bad, Kanako's hammer toe got even worse this season. She's probably the one with the most serious issues right now. Sad Sad, Lonely I love Machiko-coach, but she needs a jumping specialist on her team BADLY. ASAP. Sad )

I'll reply to the rest of interesting points later, I need to rewatch the videos more closely. flower

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:40 am

klarification wrote:
I really like Yuna's Les Miserables program! I actually gasped when I heard the section of "On My Own" because I can't believe that a top skater would skate to it after Michelle. Maybe it's because I love the musical so much that I ended up liking this program too? Razz

Now let's see. 3LZ+3T as rock solid as ever, singled the intended 2a-2t-2lo although the spread eagle entrance is very nice, 3S+2T with a fall, her 2A seems shaky again, then a rushed ending pose like in her SP. Well! Not bad, not bad at all. Seems like Yuna has some stamina issues, the second part gave me the impression that she was struggling. 69 for PCS? Ugh, she was nowhere near Vancouver level so how did this... Well whatever. Again let's let this slide! First competition in a long while, you know? Laughing

For the feel of the program, like I said I love the musical. Lea Salonga was my hero. Love Hearts However, this program had a feeling of disconnect so I can't love Yuna's interpretation as much as I would want to. There's a certain forced feeling in some parts and really, her spins and footwork need a lot of work. Hoping she can work on these more. She really left a lot of points on the table and it would be interesting how she would do do in a 'stricter' competition!

Where can I see it??????? I want to see it so much!!!!!!!
Is it another Wilson pro? I hope it's not for Yunas' sake...I was really disappointed again with the steps in her new SP. Yuna had and still has great jumps, but then when her SS starts I tend to get bored. I've always thought it wasn't Yunas' fault but Wilsons'. Yuna must be capable of doing more complicated steps than the ones he choreos for her. Overall, Yuna was amazing to be able to skate that fine after such a long time absence in her SP! But the pro itself was...not as half as much as I'd expected. She should've kept Orser and dropped Wilson instead. As much as I think it would be better for Mao to drop Lori and work with Camerlengo or Miyamoto next season.

Btw, I'm actually very happy Yuna is coming back. I had my frustrations back then, but when I look back on the years when Mao and Yuna were top ladies in competition, the sport was simply much more exciting than it has been for the past seasons. After Pattie started jumping those great quads, most of the guys started to include quads in their pros which obviously made mens singles much more exciting than before. After Yuna took time off and Mao started reforming her jumps, many of the top ladies went back to jumping only 3-2 or 3t-3t combos. Even junior ladies had much more to offer during that period. Mao started reforming her jumps from scratch so I do not blame her for not having a 3-3 yet, but from other ladies I'd like to see more. Yuna coming back will most likely start to kick everyones' butt into challenging more difficult combos. I'd really prefer it that way.

Not sure if anyone posted this yet but here's Yuna's SP vid in HD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpKmAa5DhNA

She surely still has good techs! But she looked real tired after her SP, I kind of had the feeling she might have stamina issues in FP. But I think she can manage to overcome that problem after she's really back in the game. Still, the stamina issue is the reason why I think she should've kept Orser.

ETA:never mind giving me her FP link, found it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye0u0lM9IP4

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:58 am

No her les miserables left me... miserable. please, yu-na, DROP DAVID WILSON! your long program looks exactly like your short program! turn off the music and everything is the same! i never thought i would say this, but david wilson is ruining yu-na. Depressed Crying
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:00 pm

Thanks for the analysis, inskate. Wow, you really see the difference in Mao's technique now. Her free leg was quite high back then. It got her the height for rotations but I could see by 2010 she was struggling to get her flips in the air.

I asked on the GPF thread about this but I'm not sure if you could help me with this question. What should Mao do to get more height in her jumps so that it's more obvious they have improved? (i.e. avoid UR's and add more difficulty back).
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:05 pm

aoi88 wrote:
Thanks for the analysis, inskate. Wow, you really see the difference in Mao's technique now. Her free leg was quite high back then. It got her the height for rotations but I could see by 2010 she was struggling to get her flips in the air.

I asked on the GPF thread about this but I'm not sure if you could help me with this question. What should Mao do to get more height in her jumps so that it's more obvious they have improved? (i.e. avoid UR's and add more difficulty back).

as sato mentioned speed, but she tends to slow down before jumps at times
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:27 pm

I found YNK FS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azLPLediwi0&feature=player_embedded#!

I think the choreography is much better than her SP. I like her FS, the music is beautiful!

Yuna has the jumps, but before her jumps were better, so effortless and impressive, she deserves her previous GOE in jumps.

She lost speed too, and her new spins and old spiral need a lot of work. Before competition, she said she was at 80/90% of her form at Vancouver, but in my opinion she is at 60/70% Rolling Eyes

I assume that the crazy score is because of a B competition, and she will score more fairly at Worlds, I hope. I ask me how she skate in a real competition with real contenders, at worlds, we will see how good she is now Who, me?

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:47 pm

aoi88 wrote:
I asked on the GPF thread about this but I'm not sure if you could help me with this question. What should Mao do to get more height in her jumps so that it's more obvious they have improved? (i.e. avoid UR's and add more difficulty back).

Well, right now I'd like Mao to concentrate on healing her hip first. Her jumps could use more speed, but for that she needs more confidence, and I don't think any skater can be truly confident while worrying about aggravating their injuries.

Technique-wise I think 2 things could help right now:

Arrow Decreasing the amount of crossovers before the jumps. Actually, I think this is what I think coach Sato meant when he said that Mao should do "less steps" before her jumps (as she didn't drop any transitions). I mentioned this already during CoC - Mao gets very close to the boards during her 3F and 3F-2L and she tends to slow down before the actual jump in order not to crash into the boards. I think her programs were choreographed during her off-time, and she was slower and needed ore crossovers to cover the ice back then. Now she's getting much faster (and she was just flying during the Gala today) and doing the same amount of crossovers as before she runs out of ice surface. Adjusting the choreo a bit would help here, IMHO. Actually, even adjusting some of transitions (a bit less changes of edges, but deeper edges and more powerful strokes) could potentially help.

Arrow As other posters mentioned, Mao picks a bit too much to her right, which results in her leaning to the inside and having trouble keeping the outside edge on 3Lz. Picking more in straight line would make keeping the outside edge easier.
It's getting better bit by bit, though. Actually, I'm rewatching some of the older clips now and it's surprising how much Mao's jumping style has changed. Perhaps I'll make some screenshot montages or video montages for comparison's sake later. Smile

One thing I liked (while rewatching the clips) was actually Mao's improved level of confidence in solo 3T - back in 2010 Mao had to have a perfect approach to land it (and when she caught her toe-pick during the Olympics she didn't manage to land the actual jump, even though she still got enough ice surface left. But in one of the recent practice clips she was going for 2A-3T and messed up 2A - but still, she just tacked 3T out of nowhere, witch no running approach at all. Smile

Arrow And one more thing...
A cheap, Morozovian trick, but it proven to work great many times... In the practices before the competition do some jumps without the choreo - just the jumps with no transitions, a lot of speed going in and enough space behind to hold the landing. The judges ARE watching the practices and they take note of how the skaters jump. And while "officially" transitions before the jumps and difficult positions are appreciated, in the actual competition a lot of judges seem to prefer just a normal, but huge-looking jump.
Now in the actual competition I find the "telegraphed" jumps awfully boring, but I noticed that a lot of judges seem to base their impression of the skater more on the practice session than on the actual competition... Perhaps not surprising, as during the competition they have only seconds to review each element.
...I'm just joking! Laugh
...but if I was a skater, I'd totally do that. Smile

(Sorry for hijacking the thread. My future comments re: Mao's and other skaters who are not Yuna will be posted in the appropriate threads. Embarassed )


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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:15 pm

mmm i must be hones, i got bored watching her FS, the music is beautifull, the costume too, but see no passion.
Well time will say, sure she will be much better soon, it must be really dofficult to compete after such a long time.And maybe without wanting to comeback? Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:21 pm

Inskate, wow, thanks a lot for the explanation! You are absolutely right about Yuna's take off, I got it now. It's pretty amazing she can still add a 3T when she leans so much on the first jump. I wonder if her technical ability is decreasing or it's just nerves, because her 3F in the long looked much better than her 3F in the short, for example.
I appreciate your explanation about Mao's jumping technique. I want to ask you if there is any difference from this season and last season considering her 3F, because I don't remember all this UR problems last season. I do see the improvement, the fact that she doesn't hammer toe anymore, but still she doesn't lands it cleanly, it's always close to being URed.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:40 pm



Thanks for analysis inskate! I don't know if her flutz can ever be totally fixed, but it would be good if she get back the height on it. She used to have a lot of height in it. I agree with you about the judges' preference for seeing big jumps with clean landings. I mean who doesn't? Razz Sometimes, I feel that the technique doesn't matter as much to the judges as the real-time quality of the jumps. But good technique is essential for maintaining good quality of jumps over the years.
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:57 pm

With their scores almost the same in both of their free programs (Mao's was actually a bit higher) it does seem as though reporters will be focusing on the Yuna-Mao rivalry again. Both skaters have matured enough though that they won't let it get to them this season. From IceNetwork:

Quote :
When reminded of her longtime rivalry with Asada, which dates back to their days as junior skaters, Kim was respectful of the Japanese skater, who placed second to her at the 2010 Olympics.

"We have known each other more than 10 years and are often compared with each other, and have often competed against each other, but when we meet, everybody concentrates more on his own competition and does not always think of the other competitors," she said. "Japan has many very good skaters."

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:39 pm

ElleluvsL wrote:
With their scores almost the same in both of their free programs (Mao's was actually a bit higher) it does seem as though reporters will be focusing on the Yuna-Mao rivalry again. Both skaters have matured enough though that they won't let it get to them this season. From IceNetwork:

Quote :
When reminded of her longtime rivalry with Asada, which dates back to their days as junior skaters, Kim was respectful of the Japanese skater, who placed second to her at the 2010 Olympics.

"We have known each other more than 10 years and are often compared with each other, and have often competed against each other, but when we meet, everybody concentrates more on his own competition and does not always think of the other competitors," she said. "Japan has many very good skaters."

Oh boy, tell me about it! The press in Korea had already started writing about how 'frightened' Jpn and our skaters are even before Yuna's scores came out! Even before that B-comp began! It's so insulting the way they write it, I can't understand why some Korean newspapers bother to translate their articles into Jpnse so we can all be told by them how 'frightened' we are (wow, I wonder how they found that out? lol Rolling Eyes ). But Searchina and some cheap tabloid papers in Jpn are starting to compare Mao and Yuna already too, so I guess we have stupid reporters in both countries... Sad

And all this time while GPS was going on, I never saw a single article from Jpn nor Korea focusing on Mao-Ashley rivalry nor Mao-Akiko rivalry nor Mao-Kiira rivalry...of course Korean media wouldn't have any interest in any of that, but some of the Jpnse media focusing on Mao-Yuna rivalry, while Mao was competing against other top ladies in GPS made me feel sick already. They don't care about Mao, they don't care about Yuna, and they sure as hell don't care about the sport. They just want to arouse nationality issues, and I really do not appreciate that. There was even a Jpnse tv show which analyzed how Mao was doing shortly before GP Finals, which had the nerve to ignore all the other ladies who made Finals but never forgot to mention 'Yuna is coming back soon! (Red alert!)' with her photo and past titles listed. That program pissed off alot of Mao fans in Jpn. Mad

As much as I'd like to see both Mao and Yuna back in perfect condition competing again, I don't want to see the list of all those ugly basher vids which appeared everytime you search-click 'Mao Asada' or 'Kim Yuna' on YT ever. I sincerely hope both Jpnse and Korean media would keep their voices down concerning them. They always want to turn this beautiful sport into a war against the 2 countries. I think that's simply rude to the other countries' skaters and other ladies in Jpn as well. No

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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:53 pm

I've just seen her Les Miserables program and I agree with those who say she needs to leave DW. I see in the youtube comments that her fans think it's another masterpiece, but then they thought the same for her every program. Rolling Eyes This is why I love our forum, we're not blindly praising everything that Mao does... needless to say that I disaegree with YNK fans. Yuna is a great skater who in the past had great programs, but not this season. Les Miserables is one of my favourite musicals and this sort of music could make an awesome program, especially since Yuna is great at drama, but instead choreographing a WOW program, DW completely dissapoints. Disappointed And again I feel like I'm watching parts of her old programs.

I'm not worried or better to say I don't think much of her score since this is a B International, I mean just look at the score Caro got at these competitions last season, 71 in PCS I believe, so this says everything. Like I said, imagine Mao at B Intl, I bet her score would've been much higher than what she gets at ISU competitions.
No way would Yuna receive such a high score were she skating like this at worlds. At least I hope so...

I'm still puzzled, how on earth did she get a level 4 for step seq?! But then if Ashley received level 4 in the SP, I guess it's only fair that Yuna does as well, she is much better then Ashley after all. However, as aresult of this I fully expect ISU to give Mao a level 5, Hell, no! I mean compare Mao's step seq to both Yuna and especialy Ashley, they are worlds apart. Mao is trully the queen of step sequence. Rockstar
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PostSubject: Re: Yu Na News   Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:59 pm

PochinkoPotanko wrote:
ElleluvsL wrote:
With their scores almost the same in both of their free programs (Mao's was actually a bit higher) it does seem as though reporters will be focusing on the Yuna-Mao rivalry again.

Oh boy, tell me about it! The press in Korea had already started writing about how 'frightened' Jpn and our skaters are even before Yuna's scores came out! Even before that B-comp began! It's so insulting the way they write it, I can't understand why some Korean newspapers bother to translate their articles into Jpnse so we can all be told by them how 'frightened' we are (wow, I wonder how they found that out? lol Rolling Eyes ). But Searchina and some cheap tabloid papers in Jpn are starting to compare Mao and Yuna already too, so I guess we have stupid reporters in both countries... Sad

And all this time while GPS was going on, I never saw a single article from Jpn nor Korea focusing on Mao-Ashley rivalry nor Mao-Akiko rivalry nor Mao-Kiira rivalry...of course Korean media wouldn't have any interest in any of that, but some of the Jpnse media focusing on Mao-Yuna rivalry, while Mao was competing against other top ladies in GPS made me feel sick already. They don't care about Mao, they don't care about Yuna, and they sure as hell don't care about the sport. They just want to arouse nationality issues, and I really do not appreciate that. There was even a Jpnse tv show which analyzed how Mao was doing shortly before GP Finals, which had the nerve to ignore all the other ladies who made Finals but never forgot to mention 'Yuna is coming back soon! (Red alert!)' with her photo and past titles listed. That program pissed off alot of Mao fans in Jpn. Mad

As much as I'd like to see both Mao and Yuna back in perfect condition competing again, I don't want to see the list of all those ugly basher vids which appeared everytime you search-click 'Mao Asada' or 'Kim Yuna' on YT ever. I sincerely hope both Jpnse and Korean media would keep their voices down concerning them. They always want to turn this beautiful sport into a war against the 2 countries. I think that's simply rude to the other countries' skaters and other ladies in Jpn as well. No

Oh boy, here we go again. Evil or Very Mad Disappointed I guess I'll be seeing a lot of anti Mao videos on youtube.

As for the korean media, I highly doubt Mao cares much about Yuna's skating and is rather focusing on herself, and I'm pretty sure she's not affraid of her. Rolling Eyes I guess the only thing Mao fans are worried about (I know I am), is that Yuna is going to be outrageously overscored again.

MaoChan756 wrote:
Ugh :/
My twitter is exploding with Mao-Yuna comparisons...
Apparently "129 for 5 clean triples, that seems fair to me" - While 129 of 6 clean triples is overscored... -_-

ROTFLMAO Well, tey are Yuna fans afterall, apparently getting 69 in PCS for a lackluster performance is OK as well, while getting 66 for a beautiful flowing Swan Lake is too much.


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