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 Senior Grand Prix Final 2009

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Liffey
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:22 pm

chineseteacup wrote:
Liffey wrote:
I have to say that at Skate America there were a number of people who didn't even clap for Fumie, Yuna, Elene or a lot of other skaters because they weren't American Rolling Eyes . Maybe it was just my section or something (most were hard core American-only skater fans) but I just found it so rude! Disappointed

Woah, had to squint there for a sec to read that. My eyes feel funny now Razz

Yeah, that was WAY too small. Rolling Eyes I didn't look at it after I posted it- I must have picked tiny instead of small. Sorry! I hope your eyes are ok. Razz

It was... strange. It was the night of the SP (the crowd I sat with at the LP was way better), and people were staring at me and giving me weird looks for having a Yuna banner (like it was bizarre that a Russian American could cheer for a Korean, or any other nationality for that matter Rolling Eyes ) and cheering wildly for all the men and women, not just the American ones. One guy in particular who was sitting next to me kept saying to his friend how weak all the ladies are (and name dropped Mao and Yuna in the process) and how no one could ever compare to the great 6.0 skaters (mostly Kwan in his opinion). Neutral

Susanna Poykio had a really rough performance, so when she turned our way for her bow, I clapped extra hard for her and gave a little cheer because she looked so sad. He turned to me and said, "You clapped for that?" It was said half-jokingly, but ugh. Rolling Eyes

I don't want to give American fans a bad name though- in general the fans were very respectful and were excited to see Yuna, Shen and Zhao, and other international skating stars, and the group I sat with during the LP was awesome. They just didn't seem as into the performances as the Japanese audiences seem to be. cat
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:54 pm

Liffey wrote:
One guy in particular who was sitting next to me kept saying to his friend how weak all the ladies are (and name dropped Mao and Yuna in the process) and how no one could ever compare to the great 6.0 skaters (mostly Kwan in his opinion). Neutral

Susanna Poykio had a really rough performance, so when she turned our way for her bow, I clapped extra hard for her and gave a little cheer because she looked so sad. He turned to me and said, "You clapped for that?" It was said half-jokingly, but ugh. Rolling Eyes

I don't want to give American fans a bad name though- in general the fans were very respectful and were excited to see Yuna, Shen and Zhao, and other international skating stars, and the group I sat with during the LP was awesome. They just didn't seem as into the performances as the Japanese audiences seem to be. cat

That's pretty sad Disappointed
I think sometimes people don't bother to think of how much time and energy, and how much of their life and heart skaters put into the sport. How would they like it if they trained their whole lives for something, and they did their very best and still no one acknowledged them.

Skaters, especially ones that do poorly in a performance, need some fan support! You did the right thing, in my opinion.
Confetti

Also, I have to agree with your statement on Japanese fans "getting into it". Watching the men's SP...during one of Johnny Weir's spins they do a close-up and you can see the front row pretty clearly, and some of the audience members are bobbing their heads up and down in time to the music. Too sweet!

I'm not saying it's always perfect, but I was thinking, "Now that's a great atmosphere!"
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:13 am

Liffey wrote:
Yeah, that was WAY too small. Rolling Eyes I didn't look at it after I posted it- I must have picked tiny instead of small. Sorry! I hope your eyes are ok. Razz

They're nice and rested now, all ready to watch the Ladies' LP later today Razz

Liffey wrote:
It was... strange. It was the night of the SP (the crowd I sat with at the LP was way better), and people were staring at me and giving me weird looks for having a Yuna banner (like it was bizarre that a Russian American could cheer for a Korean, or any other nationality for that matter Rolling Eyes ) and cheering wildly for all the men and women, not just the American ones. One guy in particular who was sitting next to me kept saying to his friend how weak all the ladies are (and name dropped Mao and Yuna in the process) and how no one could ever compare to the great 6.0 skaters (mostly Kwan in his opinion). Neutral

Susanna Poykio had a really rough performance, so when she turned our way for her bow, I clapped extra hard for her and gave a little cheer because she looked so sad. He turned to me and said, "You clapped for that?" It was said half-jokingly, but ugh. Rolling Eyes

I don't want to give American fans a bad name though- in general the fans were very respectful and were excited to see Yuna, Shen and Zhao, and other international skating stars, and the group I sat with during the LP was awesome. They just didn't seem as into the performances as the Japanese audiences seem to be. cat

If someone talked crap about Mao in front of me, I would probably punch them in the face Very Mad

That guy seems totally ignorant. I'll keep my opinions on Kwan to myself, because I'm mindful that some people here may be fans of Michelle, but anyone who calls Yu-Na "weak" can't see further than the nose on their own face.

So, I would take his opinion with a grain of salt.

I'd still punch him, though Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:06 am

Hmm...I'm really not liking the massive PCS gap between Evan/Dai and Tono/Jeremy. silent

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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:17 am

Well, I'm pretty bummed on the outcome of the Men's Final esp with Dai's FS. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:20 am

clovera wrote:
Hmm...I'm really not liking the massive PCS gap between Evan/Dai and Tono/Jeremy. silent

Very Mad I know. 84 PCS with aggressive flailing arm like that is ridiculous. Bad idea!

I'm also disappointed that Nobu didn't try 4-3-3. It looks incredible in practice. I can't believe he is not going for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:08 am

roma wrote:
Well, I'm pretty bummed on the outcome of the Men's Final esp with Dai's FS. Sad

Me too. Daisuke Depressed Crying
Although I never was a Shen&Zhao fan I admire them so much now! Wow, what a come back! I liked their today's performance a lot! Wub

What happened to Joannie? Only 95.77 in LP ? WOW!
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:14 am

kaarolcia wrote:

Although I never was a Shen&Zhao fan I admire them so much now! Wow, what a come back! I liked their today's performance a lot! Wub

What happened to Joannie? Only 95.77 in LP ? WOW!

I'm glad Shen and Zhao won. cheers
But Joannie getting really high PCS... even higher than Akiko and Ashley who got way higher TES than her is really Suspect

Go, Miki!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:32 am

UR call on Miki's 3S cost her the win. Crying or Very sad
Oh well, I'm looking forward to Japanese Nats...

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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:45 am

I was so rooting for Miki to win! Bawling

Anyone else think Yu-Na's skating looked off in her FS? Usually, her flip is HUGE. Today, it just looked normal sized. Maybe even undersized.

And the double-footing...

And 123.something (can't remember exactly)...hmm, I have my doubts.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:08 am

Yeah, I really wanted Miki to win here too. Snow
So Miki and Nobu qualified for Vancouver now!
I can't wait for JP Nationals and hope to see better performance from Dai there. and Mao's gonna be there!! Cheering

Congrats to Evan!! also Shen and Zhao!!
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:41 am

What an interesting GPF it's been...
I started out really loving it but today it ended with me going "What the?" Laugh
Awww! Miki was so close...but she had a great program and I'm happy. Evan beat Nobu? I have to say I'm dissapointed with that result and kind of surprised.

Off to go look at the protocols... Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:59 am

chineseteacup wrote:
I was so rooting for Miki to win! Bawling

Anyone else think Yu-Na's skating looked off in her FS? Usually, her flip is HUGE. Today, it just looked normal sized. Maybe even undersized.

And the double-footing...

And 123.something (can't remember exactly)...hmm, I have my doubts.

Her 3-2 combo got huge GOE. What the hell is...
And she got GOE 3 for her spiral (or spin) from a korean judge. Bad idea!

I loved Akiko's performance. In my opinion, she was very underscored. Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:30 am

ddmm wrote:
I loved Akiko's performance. In my opinion, she was very underscored. Very Mad
Akiko's going to get screwed over by the judges no matter how well she skates. One would think a GP win + 2nd at NHK last year + high placements at Senior B competitions will be enough to gather enough "rep" points for a higher PCS score, but Very Mad

I'm not going to bother going over the PCS scores in the men's event either - as with MaoMaoRevolution, I'm just going to enjoy the juniors tomorrow. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:51 am

ddmm wrote:
chineseteacup wrote:
I was so rooting for Miki to win! Bawling

Anyone else think Yu-Na's skating looked off in her FS? Usually, her flip is HUGE. Today, it just looked normal sized. Maybe even undersized.

And the double-footing...

And 123.something (can't remember exactly)...hmm, I have my doubts.

Her 3-2 combo got huge GOE. What the hell is...
And she got GOE 3 for her spiral (or spin) from a korean judge. Bad idea!

I loved Akiko's performance. In my opinion, she was very underscored. Very Mad

GOE 3 for her spiral? WOW!

The combo looked so very shaky, in my honest (and some would say unprofessional Laugh ) opinion. In fact, all of her jumps looked unsure today.

So that was why I was so scratch at the 123.something (still can't remember her exact score).

When Miki's score came up, I almost burst into tears.

And Akiko: I thought she skated with so much positive energy today. Nothing like getting underscored to bring someone down Bawling
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:57 am

ddmm wrote:

Her 3-2 combo got huge GOE. What the hell is...
And she got GOE 3 for her spiral (or spin) from a korean judge. Bad idea!

I loved Akiko's performance. In my opinion, she was very underscored. Very Mad

Please don't take offense to this, ddmm, but please read the protocol carefully before you post misinformation (I'm not trying to be critical (I've posted lots of wrong stuff in the past- don't worry about it! sunny ), but people can get upset unnecessarily! Razz )

The Protocols for the LP: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0910/gpf0910_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

It was MIKI, NOT Yuna, who received a +3 GOE on her spiral, so I think it was not the Korean judge ROTFLMAO . The difference was that Miki lost a level, and Yuna had a level 4 on her sequnce. Again, while I agree with you her spiral is not great to look at, the ladies are not judged on positions, unfortunately (leg only has to be above the waist-NO levels given for turn out, stretch, etc). I haven't watched the LPs yet, but maybe Miki didn't hold a position long enough or had weak edges somewhere. Like I said, I'll have to watch it first.

And Yuna DID NOT receive huge GOE for her combo. In fact, she received NO GOE at all, which I think was very, very fair. Miki earned +GOE (.20) and ended up .40 ahead of Yuna on that element.

Miki also lost points other than the Salcow. She only did a 2A-2T combination, which meant she made the same mistake as Yuna. She also underrotated her 3 Salcow, which further cost her points. Miki lost the title based on her tech score, and the fact that she and yuna BOTH had a 3-2, and then Miki made two mistakes after that, while Yuna only made one.

I have to say, looking at the protocols, Yuna was scored fairly today, although I may change my mind about the PCS after I watch the performances. Very little GOE on the jumps (and deservedly so- I've heard from everyone she was very slow and tentative today), and the PCS was around Miki's (both at a 61 or so).


I would also like to say that Akiko is amazing and always underscored for some reason. Frustrated Her LP is the first one I will go watch... right now!!! Escape

Congratulations to Yuna on her win, Miki on making the Olympic team Confetti , and Akiko for skating clean and making it onto the podium!! Woot!


Last edited by Liffey on Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:58 am

did Akiko qualified for the olympic as well?! Smile I would be very happy!!
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:21 am

Liffey wrote:
Please don't take offense to this, ddmm, but please read the protocol carefully before you post misinformation (I'm not trying to be critical (I've posted lots of wrong stuff in the past- don't worry about it! sunny ), but people can get upset unnecessarily! Razz )
Maybe ddmm was talking about the SP? The altered DG rule helped Yu-Na by quite a bit there (I'll give her kudos though for earning that many +GoEs with a popped jump and a UR call on her combination), because a tech score of around 34 with those kinds of errors were previously impossible, inflated competition or not.

ETA: Or maybe not. Nevermind. Sweatdrop

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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:33 am

Due to Japanese rule they set last year (for Mao) and media, Only Miki and Oda
got tickets for Olympic now but they have to participate in Japan National Championship
too. Even though how bad score they earn from JNC, they got tickets.
Akiko, though got bronze from GPF, has to struggle for gold or silver in JNC this
year. I hope Mao will make her straight 4-time Champion. She has to compete
carefully.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:21 pm

Kudos to Liffey for bringing some voice of reason and informed opinion.

Both Yu-na and Mao did well (well...arguably yu-na didn't do as well as many would have expected) so we should be happy for the players. Only about 3 points difference, gold and silver is only a colour difference. I think Miki is mature enough to know that, and thats why she's happy with herself, and she's now focused on what really matters; the olympics.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:21 pm

gagul_love wrote:
Kudos to Liffey for bringing some voice of reason and informed opinion.

Both Yu-na and Mao did well (well...arguably yu-na didn't do as well as many would have expected) so we should be happy for the players. Only about 3 points difference, gold and silver is only a colour difference. I think Miki is mature enough to know that, and thats why she's happy with herself, and she's now focused on what really matters; the olympics.

That's a...novel way of putting it. Surprised

Here's a question coming from an uninformed fan such as myself: How exactly are the GOEs determined?

Overall, I thought yesterday's Ladies FS was very fascinating to watch. I've personally have never seen a complete version of Akiko's programs before, so seeing her LP in its entirety was a new experience for me. And a pleasant one. It'll be interesting to see how she does at the Olympics (surely medalling at the GPF would garner her a spot on the team?).

I was also missing Mao fiercely. I guess I forgot that Mao wasn't actually going to skate yesterday, so when the competition ended after Miki skated, I was irrationally disappointed Razz .
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:57 pm

chineseteacup wrote:


Here's a question coming from an uninformed fan such as myself: How exactly are the GOEs determined?

Overall, I thought yesterday's Ladies FS was very fascinating to watch. I've personally have never seen a complete version of Akiko's programs before, so seeing her LP in its entirety was a new experience for me. And a pleasant one. It'll be interesting to see how she does at the Olympics (surely medalling at the GPF would garner her a spot on the team?).

I was also missing Mao fiercely. I guess I forgot that Mao wasn't actually going to skate yesterday, so when the competition ended after Miki skated, I was irrationally disappointed Razz .

About GOEs- There's a set list of criteria (anyone have a link to the ISU list? Sweatdrop ) they use to determine GOE. I think it's still pretty subjective, like the PCSs, which is why a lot of fans argue about it. Sure, there are set guidelines, but they seem to be easily manipulated one way or the other. Snow

Today, however, I thought the scoring was fair. After watching the performances, I thought Miki was a bit better than Yuna in interpretation today, but Miki outscored Yuna in transitions, which I thought was a little weird since I think Yuna and Mao are superior to Miki in this respect (JMHO folks! Smile ). Overall though, I didn't think the PCS was that bad, and the GOE didn't play much of a role at all because Miki lost tons of points on that Salcow.

I have to admit that when I watched Akiko's performance, I cried! While many of the other girls seemed a bit stiff and lifeless, Akiko radiated joy passion into her skate. I'm sure the clean skate had something to do with it, but I was so moved at the end of her program to see Akiko standing proudly, close to tears, and seeing her countrymen and women giving her a standing ovation. After all of her struggles over the years, it was such a magical moment. Love Hearts

And yes, I'm missing Mao fiercely too. But only THREE MORE WEEKS and we get to see her! And it won't be a moment too soon!! Many Hearts
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:20 pm

Thanks for the information, Liffey. I wish there's a course offered somewhere on interpreting the protocols Razz. It always amazes (and confounds me) how swifty the judges are able to get the scores out, with all those different rules and 10% bonuses etc.

Oftentimes, I think there may be some guesswork involved.

But I think the PCS was okay today. Yu-Na had some shaky moments, but deserved the higher PCS than Miki because of the salchow. I guess it was the GOE on the spiral that worried me.

On a completely different note, where did Akiko pop up from all of a sudden? Razz I'm surprised I've never heard much of her before this year. She is what I would call "undiscovered talent". Very Happy I agree about Akiko's passion during her FS. I thought she was like a ray of sunshine. Everyone who was watching her program with me yesterday was smiling at the end of it. D
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:25 pm

chineseteacup wrote:
Thanks for the information, Liffey. I wish there's a course offered somewhere on interpreting the protocols Razz. It always amazes (and confounds me) how swifty the judges are able to get the scores out, with all those different rules and 10% bonuses etc.

Oftentimes, I think there may be some guesswork involved.

But I think the PCS was okay today. Yu-Na had some shaky moments, but deserved the higher PCS than Miki because of the salchow. I guess it was the GOE on the spiral that worried me.

On a completely different note, where did Akiko pop up from all of a sudden? Razz I'm surprised I've never heard much of her before this year. She is what I would call "undiscovered talent". Very Happy I agree about Akiko's passion during her FS. I thought she was like a ray of sunshine. Everyone who was watching her program with me yesterday was smiling at the end of it. D
If I remember correctly,Akiko won last year's Finland Trophy. And she was also the silver medalist in last year's NHK Trophy.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:22 pm

tianrushui wrote:
chineseteacup wrote:
Thanks for the information, Liffey. I wish there's a course offered somewhere on interpreting the protocols Razz. It always amazes (and confounds me) how swifty the judges are able to get the scores out, with all those different rules and 10% bonuses etc.

Oftentimes, I think there may be some guesswork involved.

But I think the PCS was okay today. Yu-Na had some shaky moments, but deserved the higher PCS than Miki because of the salchow. I guess it was the GOE on the spiral that worried me.

On a completely different note, where did Akiko pop up from all of a sudden? Razz I'm surprised I've never heard much of her before this year. She is what I would call "undiscovered talent". Very Happy I agree about Akiko's passion during her FS. I thought she was like a ray of sunshine. Everyone who was watching her program with me yesterday was smiling at the end of it. D
If I remember correctly,Akiko won last year's Finland Trophy. And she was also the silver medalist in last year's NHK Trophy.

I'm sure we'll be seeing much more of her in the years to come Very Happy
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