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 Senior Grand Prix Final 2009

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maowataiyo
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:49 am

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I'm sure we'll be seeing much more of her in the years to come Very Happy

I hope so. But Akiko is 24. Japanese's concept of age is horribly warped for woman so... Am I the only one that has a feeling if Yukari doesn't make the Olympic team, she'll retire within a season or two.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:40 am

maowataiyo wrote:
Am I the only one that has a feeling if Yukari doesn't make the Olympic team, she'll retire within a season or two.
I'm fairly certain this will be Yukari's last competitive season (she's going to be working for Fuji TV, IIRC). It's a pity, because ever since last year's GPF, she's been in a bit of a slump and I would much prefer to see her competitive career close out with a bang. Crying or Very sad

Akiko is on a roll though, so I would be just as excited to see her make the Olympic team. This year's Nats is going to be tough. Unconscious

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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:37 am

Guys, does anyone has any photos from this event?
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:34 am

polosatik wrote:
Guys, does anyone has any photos from this event?

Lots o' pictures! Razz

http://www.daylife.com/search/photos/4/grid?q=grand+prix+final


ETA: OMG! This one of Jeremy is affraid

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0dZgc4T0a4ba1?q=grand+prix+final
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:41 pm

clovera wrote:
maowataiyo wrote:
Am I the only one that has a feeling if Yukari doesn't make the Olympic team, she'll retire within a season or two.
I'm fairly certain this will be Yukari's last competitive season (she's going to be working for Fuji TV, IIRC). It's a pity, because ever since last year's GPF, she's been in a bit of a slump and I would much prefer to see her competitive career close out with a bang. Crying or Very sad

Akiko is on a roll though, so I would be just as excited to see her make the Olympic team. This year's Nats is going to be tough. Unconscious

I didn't know she had a deal with Fuji. I hope she'll be better than robotic Arakawa.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:28 pm

"robotic Arakawa"?

Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:23 pm

By "robotic Arakawa", I meant her social filter is so prudent that she never gives insightful comments. It's always politically correct and because of that, not always accurate. You could hear Yuka Sato's bias against Miki in her commentary during the Turin Olympics because of Miki's falling out w/her dad, but atleast she spoke her mind and hit some points spot on.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:26 pm

Oh I thought you her skating is robotic, I will slap you on your face!
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:35 pm

coolmeia wrote:
Oh I thought you her skating is robotic, I will slap you on your face!

My comment was pretty amiguous wasn't it? Sorry.
But one of my favorite skating moments was Shizuka's freeskate when she won the '04 World Championships. I literally cried at the end. So by no means, do I think her skating is robotic.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:04 pm

Well Yukari hasn't really been on a slump, its those tech callers -_-....
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:57 pm

[quote="Liffey"]
ddmm wrote:

It was MIKI, NOT Yuna, who received a +3 GOE on her spiral, so I think it was not the Korean judge ROTFLMAO . The difference was that Miki lost a level, and Yuna had a level 4 on her sequnce. Again, while I agree with you her spiral is not great to look at, the ladies are not judged on positions, unfortunately (leg only has to be above the waist-NO levels given for turn out, stretch, etc). I haven't watched the LPs yet, but maybe Miki didn't hold a position long enough or had weak edges somewhere. Like I said, I'll have to watch it first.

And Yuna DID NOT receive huge GOE for her combo. In fact, she received NO GOE at all, which I think was very, very fair. Miki earned +GOE (.20) and ended up .40 ahead of Yuna on that element.

Miki also lost points other than the Salcow. She only did a 2A-2T combination, which meant she made the same mistake as Yuna. She also underrotated her 3 Salcow, which further cost her points. Miki lost the title based on her tech score, and the fact that she and yuna BOTH had a 3-2, and then Miki made two mistakes after that, while Yuna only made one.



Liffey, Yes you're right. I think I didn't read the protocols carefully. Sorry about that. Worship I guess I was shocked by Akiko and Ashley's scores and Daisuke's LP Bawling I admit, I'm very bad at reading protocols. It's too complicated for me.

And Yes, I'm missing our Mao ! but I feel I'll have a wonderful Xmas thanks to Mao. flower
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:53 pm

maowataiyo wrote:
It's always politically correct and because of that, not always accurate. You could hear Yuka Sato's bias against Miki in her commentary during the Turin Olympics because of Miki's falling out w/her dad, but atleast she spoke her mind and hit some points spot on.
That's true to an extent, but there are times when Shizuka gets emotional - notable examples including Mao at NHK last season and Miki/Akiko during the GPF this year. And like Yuka, there are times when she gives rather harsh commentary (but again, limited to NHK). IMO pretty much anyone who does commentary work for TV Asahi/Fuji TV *has* to be PC because they are almost always paired up with an announcer who knows close to nothing about skating + those two TV stations have a habit of "dumbing-down" CoP for viewers - a bit like what Scott & Sandra are doing for NBC.

And if we are talking about accuracy, Junko Yaginuma, Minoru Sano, and even Midori aren't exactly better by any means, so... (I still remember the time when Midori called Miki's attempted quad attempt at GPF 08 an "underrotated triple" salchow before panicking and correcting herself multiple times when scores were announced/protocols for Miki's programs were made accessible). Laugh

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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:54 am

as reported by jykang on facebook and posted by tokitama on twitter, takahashi attempted a quad flip during the gala's finale but double footed it. see vid at 0:38.

GPF Gala Finale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TGbtTfwAoY
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:22 am

Quote :
Liffey, Yes you're right. I think I didn't read the protocols carefully. Sorry about that. I guess I was shocked by Akiko and Ashley's scores and Daisuke's LP I admit, I'm very bad at reading protocols. It's too complicated for me.

And Yes, I'm missing our Mao ! but I feel I'll have a wonderful Xmas thanks to Mao.

sunny Like I said in my post above, don't worry about it! We all make mistakes (I know I've made my fair share!) and I agree- protocols are hard to read!

I think I'll have a great Christmas too thanks to Mao (although it will be a little stressful watching her compete and hoping she will do well! Whirly ). santa Her skating is the best present ever!
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:19 pm

Great clip, roma! That definitely was a quad attempt. I think Dai really wants to get it under his belt. At around 8:00 minutes Dai takes Johnny's blade covers and says sorry to him in a nasally voice where Johnny then replies with an "uh-huh". Smile


Last edited by maowataiyo on Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:35 pm

MaoMaoRevolution wrote:
Liffey wrote:
One guy in particular who was sitting next to me kept saying to his friend how weak all the ladies are (and name dropped Mao and Yuna in the process) and how no one could ever compare to the great 6.0 skaters (mostly Kwan in his opinion). Neutral

Susanna Poykio had a really rough performance, so when she turned our way for her bow, I clapped extra hard for her and gave a little cheer because she looked so sad. He turned to me and said, "You clapped for that?" It was said half-jokingly, but ugh. Rolling Eyes

I don't want to give American fans a bad name though- in general the fans were very respectful and were excited to see Yuna, Shen and Zhao, and other international skating stars, and the group I sat with during the LP was awesome. They just didn't seem as into the performances as the Japanese audiences seem to be. cat

That's pretty sad Disappointed
I think sometimes people don't bother to think of how much time and energy, and how much of their life and heart skaters put into the sport. How would they like it if they trained their whole lives for something, and they did their very best and still no one acknowledged them.

Skaters, especially ones that do poorly in a performance, need some fan support! You did the right thing, in my opinion.
Confetti

Also, I have to agree with your statement on Japanese fans "getting into it". Watching the men's SP...during one of Johnny Weir's spins they do a close-up and you can see the front row pretty clearly, and some of the audience members are bobbing their heads up and down in time to the music. Too sweet!

I'm not saying it's always perfect, but I was thinking, "Now that's a great atmosphere!"

I've only been to one skating competition in my life so far, but boy, surprisingly to me, a lot of people lived up to the "figure skating fans are just stuck up rich people" stereotype there! My boyfriend was nice enough to go with me. It was obvious that while he was enjoying the competition, that he was not a typical figure skating fan, and knew little about it. People weren't very nice to him there. How sad Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:47 pm

Anyway, about the competition. As usual, I'm the last person to give my review, but here it is:

The mens competition was by far the most competitive. My God, it will be anyones guess who wins, or even medals at the olympics! Congrats to Evan though! He did great!

As far as pairs go, all I have to say it: SHEN. AND. ZHAO! I love the German pair too, but Shen and Zhao are my all time favorites. I would love to see them both do their absolute best at the olypics.

Down to the ladies now: Miki did great! I was rooting for her to win. Yuna did not have her usual confidence when she went out onto the ice, or even before she went out there on either program. She said herself that she is starting to feel pressure, and it's certainly showing. She still did great, but I'm currious to see how quick she'll bounce back. Does anyone else think that her recent mistakes will give other ladies more hope that they can win the olympics? Personally, I would find it a bit conforting if I were one of those ladies. Now all of the top ladies have had bad skates so far this season, so maybe people will lay off Mao some. Miki is doing the best overall as far as consistancy goes. Watch, I bet people are going to start putting Mao back into the equation more again. Especailly if she does good at nationals.

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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:57 am

Yep, if anything, this competition proved that one of the most important element in figure skating is luck and controlling your condition. I remember the last 2002 olympics, where the two best pairs were both excellent (hard to tell which team was more skilful). Like the critic said, it wasn't the night for Russian Pair, and Canadian pair grabbed the opportunity and performed better (although they still lost -> led to controversy and change in isu scoring system).

I don't know if many people know this, but according to Yu-na kim in her interview (which you can view here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuvAdaI9J-U), she says that in her practice, her skating blades hit each other and were damaged. In her own words, she said "the blades become more 'flat', and even though I tried to fix it, it just didn't feel the same. But even though I skated with such a bad condition, I'm glad I did ok". And according to her interview after her mediocre FS program in Skate america, she said she was way too nervous and was pressured a lot because her SP was just too good, too much expectations.

So, basically, there are so many elements that can affect a candidate's performance, some things that they have no control over. If Mao and Miki can bring their game up to the level close to Yu-na's, then the gold is really up for grabs, depending on who's night it is. Well, that's how I see it anyway.

*edit: btw, came across this funny cartoon music video of Kim Yu-na. You can also see other skaters like Mao and her coach orser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2BZ48sRHI0
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:55 pm

You make it sound like Mao's only chance at gold is if Yu-na has an off-day due to some mental glitch or accident. Miki is a darkhorse and can use her previous experience in the Olympics to her advantage. Joannie can either thrive off the hometown crowd or crumble.

Mao is still a viable candidate for gold. It depends on whether Mao has the mental toughness to execute clean programs, which thus far has shown not to. Yu-na is the favorite for OG this season, but she has also shown she can be susceptible to pressure. Skate America was a clear indicator of that.

Yu-na's advantages over Mao are that her programs are more audience friendly because they are more light with various tempo changes; and that she garners a lot points from PCS and GOEs. The way she's been racking up points shows that even with a disastrous LP, she still has a great shot at gold if she can pull out ahead enough in the short. In the GPF, Tokyo- one judge's scores would have given her around 134 points for her LP, combine that with her SP and it tallies close to 200.

I actually read online about her blades being damaged in a Zainichi newspaper, so there's a fairly good chance others may have known about it. I don't understand Korean, but thank you for the link to the video clip. I think the cartoon is very cute. I wonder what is meant by "長" on the forehead on one of the skaters on the podium next to Yu-na in her Miss Saigon dress. I disagree with the author's insert that Yu-na's conduct has been respectable. Great skater, but some off-ice behavior make me question if the pressure on her shoulders is too much.

I like Mao's demeanor where she doesn't talk to reporters about how she was snowed in; was fatigued; had a broken finger; missed a day of practice because there was a plane fatality; competed in front of a biased audience; faced cruel media outlets; bombarded by reporters even though her management requested her to be left alone; or had contract obligations to fulfill. She just goes on with her skating and accepts full responsibility of how she competed that day.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:07 pm

maowataiyo wrote:
I like Mao's demeanor where she doesn't talk to reporters about how she was snowed in; was fatigued; had a broken finger; missed a day of practice because there was a plane fatality; competed in front of a biased audience; faced cruel media outlets; bombarded by reporters even though her management requested her to be left alone; or had contract obligations to fulfill. She just goes on with her skating and accepts full responsibility of how she competed that day.

Perfectly said Many Hearts
That (as well as the whole post) sums up why Mao really has a beautiful personality, as well as the strength that most people do not have to accept what happens despite the circumstances. I've never seen any kind of off-ice drama from Mao. What sticks out for me is when she fell on hr 3A at Worlds 2008, when the media asked her she didn't even blame it on not having a coach, which is a huge deal. She's what you would call someone who demonstrates "grace under pressure". Yep!
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:14 pm

Yes, Mao is not one of those skaters who always finds an excuse for why she didn't skate well. Certainly there are often circumstances which make things difficult for all skaters, but some of them seem to talk about those circumstances a lot more than others. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:30 pm

Thank you for your posts, maowataiyo, MaoMaoRevolution and illani. I particularly enjoyed your discourses on why Mao's personality is so attractive and what makes her so lovable in general. Many Hearts Yes, I completely agree.

What drew me to Mao in the beginning was her skating, but what eventually made me a fan of hers was her work ethic. When Mao talks about what went wrong in a competition, she always frames her answer according to what could be improved. This season, it happens to be the 3A. And instead of waxing lyrical about the whole thing, she just said, "I will practise the 3A until I get it 100/100."

Now, that's what I call a work ethic.

Boot problems, slippery ice surfaces, unforeseen obstacles on the ice - those are all unavoidable circumstances. And like illani has said, they make things difficult for all skaters.

And one only needs to refer to Mao's response to one of her boots becoming untied during her skate at one of the GP events in 2004-2005 (I think it's this season and series) for further evidence of Mao's strength of character.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:43 pm

Quote :
You make it sound like Mao's only chance at gold is if Yu-na has an off-day due to some mental glitch or accident.
Well if you read my words carefully that wasn't what I'm getting at, if anything I was saying Mao may have just as much chance as Yu-na.

But I generally agree with Mao's graceful behaviour off the ice, in comparison to Yu-na who certainly likes to talk a lot before and after games. Although that is part of who Yu-na is, even before she made herself known in the world of figure skating, so it's nice to see her staying true to herself. I think in one of her earlier interviews, when asked if she was surprised to see so much media attention after her first win (gold at junior world champ), she just shrugged and replied 'not really, I mean I see these kind of treatments for Korean atheletes overseas so it doesn't surprise me'.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:51 am

This is how I interpreted your words, gangul_love. You made an assertion/claim (I believe referring to how close Yu-na & Miki were in the GPF) in your 1st paragraph that people who finish at the top of the podium are those who can control their "condition" best (by condition, I'm assuming you mean things such as mental, emotional, physical, environmental, etc.) by things you can control through practice, repetitions, visualizations, eating right, sleeping enough, not overworking yourself, being fit, having good communication, experiencing many different situations & practicing how you react to it, self-actualization, etc. in order to perform to the best of their potential mixed in with an element of luck (things beyond your control- politics, judging scandals, gear/technical malfunctions, accidents, etc.).

You then presented an example of how Yu-na's blades were not in optimal condition after they were damaged in a practice session during the GPF. This falls into the category of things outside one's control/"luck" such as an accidental mishap and gear problems. The second example refers back to Yu-na's performance at SA, where she skated poorly because of being too nervous and feeling the pressure & expectations set after a new world-record SP. This falls into the category of not being able to control one's mental state/emotions/"condition". Correct?

Your third paragraph is your conclusion where it summarizes that there are many variables that can have an affect on an athlete's performance & therefore effect the overall results as you term it, "...depending on who's night it is". I inferred from the former part of that sentence & made my remark based on it to which you quoted.

"If Mao and Miki can bring their game up to the level close to Yu-na's, then the gold is really up for grabs.." First off, those are fighting words around here. That's an inherently condescending statement by diction when you choose to use the word "close" because it connotes an idea of "almost, but not quite". I know you're a fan of Yu-na & that opinion is perfectly fine. My argument is that you did make it sound like (whether you realize it or not) the Olympic gold is for Yu-na's to lose. To which I wholeheartedly disagree. It's only hers to win. Just as it is Miki's to win or Joannie's to win or Akiko's to win or (I'm hoping and believe) Mao's to win. I get the whole notion of being the favorite for gold and that placements are not always exclusive, but I think people fail to recognize that you may have been considered the best skater in the world or the most talented if your potential is realized, but Olympic gold is something you achieve even if it's won by the last ranked skater- if that person performed better & excelled more than the other competitors that evening, with consideration of the PCS & GOEs aspect of the spectator sport- then they deserve to be on top of that podium. Tara won the gold and Michelle won the silver at Nagano. Sarah won the gold at Salt Lake. Shizuka won the gold at Turin. Michelle won the bronze. Now, I'm not trying to be Ms. Peppy, by not saying Michelle, Irina "won" the bronze vs saying they "got" the bronze. I'm just saying that is how they're performances at the Olympics were assessed and valued. I pray that there aren't judging scandals like the ones in Salt Lake & that standards for judging is consistent throughout the board.

And there's nothing wrong if Yu-na is better in your opinion, gangul_love. I respect that. I wasn't trying to twist your words or objective. I just tried to read what you've written. I hope it's not something you think I'm trying to knock you for. And I forgot to thank you for also putting up the translations for Yu-na's interview, so thank you so much. That was real sweet of you. And I was really happy you wrote in another post that you liked "Bells". There are lots of people even amongst Mao fan's who do not like that program.

I still feel Yu-na is far more capable of making responsible comments & I think Mao has displayed better sportsmanship by accepting her condition that day and her performance due to it. You know what I mean? I've never heard Mao remark or complain about smaller rinks (which I think girls need all the room for, to build enough speed for a 3axel) because everyone had to deal with it. I definitely think Yu-na's ailments-hip and lower back; cold; dealing with being basically a pioneer in Korean Figure Skating; having messed up blades- effect her skating, but I don't necessarily think she has to voice them. I think skating fans will understand her situation & come to accept with however she performed. And there's nothing bad with Yu-na being forthright about her concerns, but I think there were alternative & much more effective ways to address them.
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:25 am

maowataiyo wrote:
This is how I interpreted your words, gangul_love. You made an assertion/claim (I believe referring to how close Yu-na & Miki were in the GPF) in your 1st paragraph that people who finish at the top of the podium are those who can control their "condition" best (by condition, I'm assuming you mean things such as mental, emotional, physical, environmental, etc.) by things you can control through practice, repetitions, visualizations, eating right, sleeping enough, not overworking yourself, being fit, having good communication, experiencing many different situations & practicing how you react to it, self-actualization, etc. in order to perform to the best of their potential mixed in with an element of luck (things beyond your control- politics, judging scandals, gear/technical malfunctions, accidents, etc.).

You then presented an example of how Yu-na's blades were not in optimal condition after they were damaged in a practice session during the GPF. This falls into the category of things outside one's control/"luck" such as an accidental mishap and gear problems. The second example refers back to Yu-na's performance at SA, where she skated poorly because of being too nervous and feeling the pressure & expectations set after a new world-record SP. This falls into the category of not being able to control one's mental state/emotions/"condition". Correct?

Your third paragraph is your conclusion where it summarizes that there are many variables that can have an affect on an athlete's performance & therefore effect the overall results as you term it, "...depending on who's night it is". I inferred from the former part of that sentence & made my remark based on it to which you quoted.

"If Mao and Miki can bring their game up to the level close to Yu-na's, then the gold is really up for grabs.." First off, those are fighting words around here. That's an inherently condescending statement by diction when you choose to use the word "close" because it connotes an idea of "almost, but not quite". I know you're a fan of Yu-na & that opinion is perfectly fine. My argument is that you did make it sound like (whether you realize it or not) the Olympic gold is for Yu-na's to lose. To which I wholeheartedly disagree. It's only hers to win. Just as it is Miki's to win or Joannie's to win or Akiko's to win or (I'm hoping and believe) Mao's to win. I get the whole notion of being the favorite for gold and that placements are not always exclusive, but I think people fail to recognize that you may have been considered the best skater in the world or the most talented if your potential is realized, but Olympic gold is something you achieve even if it's won by the last ranked skater- if that person performed better & excelled more than the other competitors that evening, with consideration of the PCS & GOEs aspect of the spectator sport- then they deserve to be on top of that podium. Tara won the gold and Michelle won the silver at Nagano. Sarah won the gold at Salt Lake. Shizuka won the gold at Turin. Michelle won the bronze. Now, I'm not trying to be Ms. Peppy, by not saying Michelle, Irina "won" the bronze vs saying they "got" the bronze. I'm just saying that is how they're performances at the Olympics were assessed and valued. I pray that there aren't judging scandals like the ones in Salt Lake & that standards for judging is consistent throughout the board.

And there's nothing wrong if Yu-na is better in your opinion, gangul_love. I respect that. I wasn't trying to twist your words or objective. I just tried to read what you've written. I hope it's not something you think I'm trying to knock you for. And I forgot to thank you for also putting up the translations for Yu-na's interview, so thank you so much. That was real sweet of you. And I was really happy you wrote in another post that you liked "Bells". There are lots of people even amongst Mao fan's who do not like that program.

I still feel Yu-na is far more capable of making responsible comments & I think Mao has displayed better sportsmanship by accepting her condition that day and her performance due to it. You know what I mean? I've never heard Mao remark or complain about smaller rinks (which I think girls need all the room for, to build enough speed for a 3axel) because everyone had to deal with it. I definitely think Yu-na's ailments-hip and lower back; cold; dealing with being basically a pioneer in Korean Figure Skating; having messed up blades- effect her skating, but I don't necessarily think she has to voice them. I think skating fans will understand her situation & come to accept with however she performed. And there's nothing bad with Yu-na being forthright about her concerns, but I think there were alternative & much more effective ways to address them.


Yep!
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PostSubject: Re: Senior Grand Prix Final 2009   

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