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polosatik
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:07 am

Thanks bibi!It seems like Joannie likes Mao more then Yuna! Too sweet!
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:18 am

bibi wrote:
another article about Joannie (in french!)
http://vivezvancouver.radio-canada.ca/vivezvancouver/Patinage_artistique/2010/01/18/001-semaine-rochette.shtml

Quote :
« Kim est battable, mais quand elle est à son mieux, c'est
difficile. Elle est dans une classe à part. Ce n'est pas la plus
gracieuse, mais sa vitesse et sa technique sont excellentes. C'est
spectaculaire de la voir rentrer dans un saut avec la vitesse qu'elle
prend. »
« Mao est plus gracieuse. J'admire énormément Yu-Na et Mao. Je suis
assez réaliste et je suis capable de voir mes concurrentes et de leur
donner ce qui leur appartient. »

I'll try to translate it for you guys:

'' Kim is beatable, but when she is at her best, is difficult. She is in a class by herself. She is not the most graceful, but she has excellent speed and technique. It's spectacular to see her jump with the speed she takes. "

"Mao is more graceful. I admire greatly Yu-Na and Mao. I'm pretty realistic and I can see my competitors and give them what they deserve. "


Joannie make more objective observations than some commentaries I love you I agree Mao is more graceful than Kim, so I don't get why I hear commentaries say Kim is ethereal on ice Rolling Eyes She is powerful and dramatic but not as graceful. However, I only see Kim in a class of her own in terms of consistency. I actually think Mao has equal if not greater natural talent than Kim. I see Yuna as the 'perfect' student type who rarely mistakes and always gets good grades, whereas Mao is the more artistic type who likes to experiment and take risks. Although she has more erratic patterns of success, she is more naturally talented. Wub Ok maybe these are just a fan's thoughts but this is how I see it Many Hearts
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:48 pm

aoi88 wrote:
She is powerful and dramatic but not as graceful. However, I only see Kim in a class of her own in terms of consistency. I actually think Mao has equal if not greater natural talent than Kim. I see Yuna as the 'perfect' student type who rarely mistakes and always gets good grades, whereas Mao is the more artistic type who likes to experiment and take risks. Although she has more erratic patterns of success, she is more naturally talented. Wub Ok maybe these are just a fan's thoughts but this is how I see it Many Hearts

What a great way of putting it aoi88! I totally agree with your student analogy!

I agree with everyone that Mao is more graceful, but I think that Yuna is in a league of her own not only because of her consistancy, but becuase the judges have put her in a league of their own. When the other skaters look at those scores, many of them probably start believing she is in a league of her own, thinking, "God, how am I ever going to be able to compete with that?" Did she deserved most of her titles? Yes. But by the huge margine of points she's been earning those titles at? No, not IMO. If I were a judge, Yuna would be on a much more even playing field.
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:16 pm

Star85 wrote:

I agree with everyone that Mao is more graceful, but I think that Yuna is in a league of her own not only because of her consistancy, but becuase the judges have put her in a league of their own. When the other skaters look at those scores, many of them probably start believing she is in a league of her own, thinking, "God, how am I ever going to be able to compete with that?" Did she deserved most of her titles? Yes. But by the huge margine of points she's been earning those titles at? No, not IMO. If I were a judge, Yuna would be on a much more even playing field.

THIS THIS THIS. So much. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If there's one thing I've learned in my psychology classes, it's that our beliefs/expectations have a HUGE- often unintended- impact on our behavior. When skaters believe that they don't even come near Yu-Na in skill/etc, they will skate in a way that confirms that expectation, which gives them lower scores, which fuels their beliefs, and it's just a cycle. Like Star85 said, I'm not disputing the fact that Yu-Na skates well and has "deserved" most of her wins. I just don't agree with judges giving her monstrous scores even with major mistakes in her programs and putting her scores so much above the other skaters that they feel they can't even come close, because that will have a huge effect on their subsequent skating.
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:43 pm

bellarina wrote:
Star85 wrote:

I agree with everyone that Mao is more graceful, but I think that Yuna is in a league of her own not only because of her consistancy, but becuase the judges have put her in a league of their own. When the other skaters look at those scores, many of them probably start believing she is in a league of her own, thinking, "God, how am I ever going to be able to compete with that?" Did she deserved most of her titles? Yes. But by the huge margine of points she's been earning those titles at? No, not IMO. If I were a judge, Yuna would be on a much more even playing field.

THIS THIS THIS. So much. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If there's one thing I've learned in my psychology classes, it's that our beliefs/expectations have a HUGE- often unintended- impact on our behavior. When skaters believe that they don't even come near Yu-Na in skill/etc, they will skate in a way that confirms that expectation, which gives them lower scores, which fuels their beliefs, and it's just a cycle. Like Star85 said, I'm not disputing the fact that Yu-Na skates well and has "deserved" most of her wins. I just don't agree with judges giving her monstrous scores even with major mistakes in her programs and putting her scores so much above the other skaters that they feel they can't even come close, because that will have a huge effect on their subsequent skating.

That's true to an extent. I also think her main competitors not doing so well makes her performances seem better than they really are, so she could get overscored. Also, scores tend to increase as time goes by in subjective sports, because it's always nice to see new records broken. I think Mao's LP back in 2007 would probably be scored higher if it were more recent . Also her channeling Kwan is not a bad idea either, since you Kwan is a legend and loved by judges
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:16 pm

aoi88 wrote:
That's true to an extent. I also think her main competitors not doing so well makes her performances seem better than they really are, so she could get overscored. Also, scores tend to increase as time goes by in subjective sports, because it's always nice to see new records broken. I think Mao's LP back in 2007 would probably be scored higher if it were more recent . Also her channeling Kwan is not a bad idea either, since you Kwan is a legend and loved by judges

Those are some very, very good points! They feel like they have to keep making the scores higher and higher, in order to keep up the excitement and interest. And it doesn't help when the judges at the various national competitions score their top skaters unnaturally high, making the other countries eager to score theirs even higher. Rolling Eyes It turns into an endless upward spiral of scores, until it becomes simply ridiculous.
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:29 pm

I agree with Star85 and aoi88! Very Happy Thank you to Joannie for pointing out that Mao is more graceful. Thumbs up!

From Joannie's various comments, it seems that she thinks Mao is a better skater (ok, she even called Mao 'the best')--she's more graceful, she's got the triple axel; Joannie respects Mao the most...but Yu-Na Kim is almost impossible to beat, because, as Star85 said, the judges have tried to make her that way.

But, as I said in the Mao news thread, there may be a small part of Yu-Na that agrees with Joannie. Three years ago, Yu-Na said she thought Mao would win the Olympics because she wanted it more. Even last season, she named Mao as one of the 3 most influential people in her skating career.

Maybe Yu-Na now believes the hype and believes that the judges will give her the win no matter what, and that gives her rock-solid confidence. Or maybe, deep down inside, some small part of her still believes that Mao Asada is better.

Who knows? All I know is that Mao shouldn't think about Yu-Na; she just needs to think about herself. She needs to remind the judges that she is MAO ASADA, the skater who everyone thought would change the world--the skater to end all skaters--the one who ignited a huge controversy before the 2006 Olympics. Yes, she's had ups and downs over the intervening 4 years, but now it's time to remind the judges that she is that prodigy, that genius, that CHAMPION, and now it's finally time for her to claim that gold medal! Cheering
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:53 pm

I agree with you Batsuchan. In the past, when Mao was chasing after a title, she always managed to show us her true potential in amazing performances. A part of the reason I think she is feeling a lot of pressure last year and struggling as a result is that she was no longer chasing but defending her titles. But at nationals, we see her that she is getting her competitive spirit back, so hopefully Mao will shine again at the Olympics!
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:08 am

Batsuchan wrote:

All I know is that Mao shouldn't think about Yu-Na; she just needs to think about herself. She needs to remind the judges that she is MAO ASADA, the skater who everyone thought would change the world--the skater to end all skaters--the one who ignited a huge controversy before the 2006 Olympics. Yes, she's had ups and downs over the intervening 4 years, but now it's time to remind the judges that she is that prodigy, that genius, that CHAMPION, and now it's finally time for her to claim that gold medal! Cheering

cheers Woohoo! Confetti
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:21 am

Hmmm, since im not so good in the skating rules, i cant understand so good, but if i understand right, then its not Yuna is the problem, the judges are the problem! I thought the new score system should make those kind of problem imossible, but they give only her so many points and other skaters who would skate exactly the same, would get way less points! *points to Yukari*
These judges love Yuna, but they should be detached!
I mean, ok, at the 2009 Worlds, Yuna really deserved that 76 points, but im not sure about the scores for her from this season~~
(im sorry for my english)
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:26 pm

Actually, I think some of Yuna's past programs were better than her present ones (Tango de Roxanne ), but she didn't get such high scores for those. Her scores only started to get so high after her dominating win after last years Worlds. I think Yuna's record-breaking scores have much to do with Mao's slump. Before they were close rivals, so the judges were about even between the two. However, due to Mao's slump since Worlds, Yuna has emerged as a dominant figure. Miki and Rochette are great skaters, but they are just not in the same league as Yuna, which makes Yuna stand out even more, thus probably resulting in higher scores than deserved. The same thing happened with Michelle. After the departure of Tara, she emerged to dominate figure skating because there didn't seem to be a skater that could rival her. That's why Batsuchan is right in saying that Mao should focus on herself and not Yuna. Mao is the only one who can hinder the dominance of Yuna, because she is the only one capable of rivaling Yuna.
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PostSubject: Re: Canadian Nationals   Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:07 pm

aoi88 wrote:
Actually, I think some of Yuna's past programs were better than her present ones (Tango de Roxanne ), but she didn't get such high scores for those. Her scores only started to get so high after her dominating win after last years Worlds. I think Yuna's record-breaking scores have much to do with Mao's slump. Before they were close rivals, so the judges were about even between the two. However, due to Mao's slump since Worlds, Yuna has emerged as a dominant figure. Miki and Rochette are great skaters, but they are just not in the same league as Yuna, which makes Yuna stand out even more, thus probably resulting in higher scores than deserved. The same thing happened with Michelle. After the departure of Tara, she emerged to dominate figure skating because there didn't seem to be a skater that could rival her. That's why Batsuchan is right in saying that Mao should focus on herself and not Yuna. Mao is the only one who can hinder the dominance of Yuna, because she is the only one capable of rivaling Yuna.

Yep!
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