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 Winter Olympics 2010

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dlnnyc
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:13 pm

Batsuchan wrote:
dlnnyc wrote:
dont know if someone posted this already but here are the links for mao and yuna's sp with british eurosport commentary

mao
mediafire.com ?ty30zyzljom

yuna
mediafire.com ?ymnuy4mhz3i

Thanks so much for these!! Very Happy

Commentators on Mao after her program: "Everyone was talking about Kim Yu-Na, whom she used to be able to beat. And now, she's putting herself into position. She just might be able to beat Kim."

"A triple axel! Just amazing, isn't it? In a short program is quite incredible. That really--and it was an absolute blinder, Simon! Nothing wrong with that AT ALL. Three and a half turns, clean as you like. Big, big element."

They said Midori Ito's 3A in the Olympics was not as good as Mao's last night!!

Aww, how I LOOOVE the British commentators!! Love Hearts Love Hearts

And then this:

"The amazing thing is though, is that the tariff for the combination that she did isn't as much as what Kim's going to do. Kim's going to do triple-lutz/triple-toe loop, and that's worth 10; [video of Mao's 3A-2T] that was worth 9.5, the base value of that. THAT'S where the system's wrong." Other guy: "Yes." "Because the triple axel is SO difficult!"

HALLELUJAH!!!


WOW... i so agree. so much harder, even some men cant do this combo. what is the base for a 3A vs a 3L? i guess the diff is that yuna does a 3 after the lutx and mao does a 2 after the axel.

thanks for posting their comments. i wonder why mine has no sound. i love their commentary.
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:16 pm

Thanks for translation Batsuchan!

Does anyone know what the British guys said after Yuna's performance? It takes me such a long time to download the file :joker:
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:33 pm

aoi88 wrote:
Thanks for translation Batsuchan!

Does anyone know what the British guys said after Yuna's performance? It takes me such a long time to download the file :joker:

hi i got it to work. had to download a plug in.

in a nutshell they said they would put yuna first, due to jumps, speed were better than mao.

but what i loved is that they tell the audience what a talent mao is and what she has accomplished... they also said that with mao and yuna's program back to back in was top-knotch skating in those 8 minutes.
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:55 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:19 pm

kirakira wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDX8K2hgo4c

Cheering

Thank you! Very Happy

Dai said, "I think Mao skated very calmly. In the free program I want her to go for it!"

Yeahhh, me too!

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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:56 pm

Thanks for all the great translations guys!

Batsuchan wrote:

Q: Did you watch Yu-Na Kim’s performance?

A: I only saw her first jump, but she skated perfectly so I was really impressed, and in the free program, I think it would be good if we can both bring out our best.

Q: What about the 5 point difference (between you and Yu-Na Kim)?

A: Well yes, but, I think [my performance] will translate into [a good performance] in the free program.

*******
GO MAO! Cheering

Ahem: Mao, when are you going to stop being so darn politically correct?! I'm sure there's at least a little part of you that wants Yuna to fall on her butt! lol!

I love those British commentators too! I just don't agree with them on the whole putting Yuna in first thing... They (like everyone else) rave about Yuna's speed, which makes her jumps big. But people usually don't talk about the areas where Mao has Yuna beat - her flexability, which makes her possitions top notch, her spirals (although Yuna often scores higher than Mao here for some reason I will never understand...), and her effortless, light grace. And in my opinion, her artistry. But anyway, the judges, and many others are obviously favoring Yuna's strengths over Mao's. This isn't just about the British commentators, this is actually something I've been thinking about for a while...

Hey, while watching Mao's SP, did anyone else think that Mao made the jumps look SO easy, light, and delicate, that the judges wouldn't... I don't know...reward her as much? That went through my head a little...
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:24 pm

Star85 wrote:

I love those British commentators too! I just don't agree with them on the whole putting Yuna in first thing... They (like everyone else) rave about Yuna's speed, which makes her jumps big. But people usually don't talk about the areas where Mao has Yuna beat - her flexability, which makes her possitions top notch, her spirals (although Yuna often scores higher than Mao here for some reason I will never understand...), and her effortless, light grace. And in my opinion, her artistry. But anyway, the judges, and many others are obviously favoring Yuna's strengths over Mao's. This isn't just about the British commentators, this is actually something I've been thinking about for a while...

Hey, while watching Mao's SP, did anyone else think that Mao made the jumps look SO easy, light, and delicate, that the judges wouldn't... I don't know...reward her as much? That went through my head a little...
Yeah, I agree that the media in general is so fixated on the whole "Yu-Na is in a class of her own and the best skater ever" thing that they either overlook Mao or they only refer to her as Yu-Na's biggest competition/the triple axel girl. Mao really has the entire package and it sucks that she's not getting the recognition she deserves for that (nor the GOEs, I might add). Mad

And I definitely agree about her jumps. I honestly prefer her jumps to anyone else's because they're so light and beautiful (seriously, who else can make the triple axel look like the lightest, prettiest jump ever?) I don't know, I feel like the fact that she can do these really hard jumps and complete them while making them look like she's floating delicately across the ice should be rewarded. But maybe that's just me.
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:01 am

bellarina wrote:
Star85 wrote:

I love those British commentators too! I just don't agree with them on the whole putting Yuna in first thing... They (like everyone else) rave about Yuna's speed, which makes her jumps big. But people usually don't talk about the areas where Mao has Yuna beat - her flexability, which makes her possitions top notch, her spirals (although Yuna often scores higher than Mao here for some reason I will never understand...), and her effortless, light grace. And in my opinion, her artistry. But anyway, the judges, and many others are obviously favoring Yuna's strengths over Mao's. This isn't just about the British commentators, this is actually something I've been thinking about for a while...

Hey, while watching Mao's SP, did anyone else think that Mao made the jumps look SO easy, light, and delicate, that the judges wouldn't... I don't know...reward her as much? That went through my head a little...
Yeah, I agree that the media in general is so fixated on the whole "Yu-Na is in a class of her own and the best skater ever" thing that they either overlook Mao or they only refer to her as Yu-Na's biggest competition/the triple axel girl. Mao really has the entire package and it sucks that she's not getting the recognition she deserves for that (nor the GOEs, I might add). Mad

And I definitely agree about her jumps. I honestly prefer her jumps to anyone else's because they're so light and beautiful (seriously, who else can make the triple axel look like the lightest, prettiest jump ever?) I don't know, I feel like the fact that she can do these really hard jumps and complete them while making them look like she's floating delicately across the ice should be rewarded. But maybe that's just me.

oh yes, her jumps are so beautiful and look so effortless, for example sasha 2a, please she looks how if she will do a 4a, very much effort for a only 2a
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:43 am

Thanks for the video links, dlnnyc. Finally, commentators who see sense and give Mao the credit that is due for her 3A combination!

I've been thinking along similar lines as what Star85, bellarina and chapis have said about the lightness of Mao's jumps. Why is it assumed that the bigger jumps always come from the more skilful skaters? Surely, the only criteria that should be applied to jumps are whether they are fully-rotated or not and the quality of the take-offs and landings.

Take Mao's 3A-2T in her SP at this Olympics. Textbook take-off, without a doubt fully-rotated (as reflected by lack of deductions), and a perfectly solid landing. Why, then, was the combination only rewarded a GOE of 0.60? Presumably because the 'leap' that is present in Yu-Na's jumps was notably absent in Mao's.

And yet, the absence of the 'leap' should signify skill on the part of the skater. It bespeaks remarkable control on Mao's part that she is able to make the 3A look like a 2A, or even a 1A and still have it fully-rotated in the air. If she's spending less time in the air than skaters who have the bigger jumps, it must mean she's rotating her body faster, making her jumps more compact.

Right now, it seems as if the GOEs are awarded based on how difficult the skaters make their jumps look. Mao makes her jumps look easy, effortless, and that is surely the reason why her jumps are receiving absurdly low GOEs like 0.60.

Mao simply has a different style of jumping. It's an advancement in the skating technique. If she can make 3As look so easy, who is to say that she will not one day achieve a 4A? On the other hand, those who make triple jumps look like a feat of gigantic proportions may very well be at the limits of their jumping potential.
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:24 am

Oh dear, I caucht flu at the worst possible time. pale

I'm happy that Mao skated so well in the SP. This was her best performance this season, I think. She must have nerves of steel!

As for the scoring and general musings about CoP, I'll write a longer post as soon as my head stops pounding.


chineseteacup wrote:

Take Mao's 3A-2T in her SP at this Olympics. Textbook take-off, without a doubt fully-rotated (as reflected by lack of deductions), and a perfectly solid landing. Why, then, was the combination only rewarded a GOE of 0.60? Presumably because the 'leap' that is present in Yu-Na's jumps was notably absent in Mao's.

Actually, the judges have a pretty strict guidebook on how to award GoEs. There is a certain amount of 'points/bullets' that the skater collect, and the more he/she collects, the higher the GoE will be.

I'll post the whole list later, but just from my memory some of the required features are: superior height, superior ice coverage (the distance that the jump covers), superior flow and speed on the landing, creative entrance /air position/ landing, how the jump fits musical structure of the program, delayed rotation, etc.

What Mao's first two jumping passess lacked (in comparison to YuNa's)was the speed on the landing and ice coverage. Plus, the landings on 2T and 3F were a bit woozy. In addition, the 3F take-off might have turned some of the judges off - the 'mule kick/toe hammer' didn't reallt help Caro-Z's jumps and it might hurt Mao's GoEs, too.

OTOH, I think that Mao's 2A should receive at least some +3s. The height, ice coverage and speed on the landing were great, and she had an extremely difficult entrance - a reverse spread-eagle, which made it sort of a Lutz-y 2A. Plus it was right bang on the music.

Quote :
And yet, the absence of the 'leap' should signify skill on the part of the skater. It bespeaks remarkable control on Mao's part that she is able to make the 3A look like a 2A, or even a 1A and still have it fully-rotated in the air. If she's spending less time in the air than skaters who have the bigger jumps, it must mean she's rotating her body faster, making her jumps more compact.

Actually, I don't think that the speed of the rotation impresses the judges much, because it's something that comes with body type, not perfecting the technique. An example might be a skater like Kevin Reynolds, who rotates very fast in the air, but his technique, especially on axels, is flawed, which makes him a rather inconsistent skater.

The judges prefer jumps that cover a lot of distance, have a lot of height and flow on the landing. Those are things that are influenced by the skater's technique - a jump landed with great speed and excellent flow proves that the skater is very confident in his jumping technique and has good edge control.
Of course, rotating fast can be beneficial, too - it helps to execute upper tier jumps or do jumps with delayed rotation.

I think Mao could definitely improve her jumping technique to get high GoEs... I wish she could get help from a coach who specializes in jump training. She has the ability, but poor habits from the junior days mess up her technique now that she has grown up, and attempts to fix too many jumps at once rendered her jumps shaky. I hope those issues will be adressed after the season's over, though. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:10 am

Oscilla wrote:


Quote :
And yet, the absence of the 'leap' should signify skill on the part of the skater. It bespeaks remarkable control on Mao's part that she is able to make the 3A look like a 2A, or even a 1A and still have it fully-rotated in the air. If she's spending less time in the air than skaters who have the bigger jumps, it must mean she's rotating her body faster, making her jumps more compact.

Actually, I don't think that the speed of the rotation impresses the judges much, because it's something that comes with body type, not perfecting the technique. An example might be a skater like Kevin Reynolds, who rotates very fast in the air, but his technique, especially on axels, is flawed, which makes him a rather inconsistent skater.

My thoughts were that, just as there are a variety of skating styles amongst the athletes, acknowledgement should be given to different jumping styles. Is Mao's jumping technique faulty? Of course Mao should continue to work on her technique, because adjustments and improvements are an essential part of any form of training, whether it be for skating or playing an instrument, but the question at hand is whether Mao's jumping technique is fundamentally faulty.

I don't think so. Like I've said before, I think it is merely a case of Mao having a different jumping style. Her jumps are soft, light. They may not span across huge distances, but they're as solid as the huge jumps when landed. Setting the huge jumps as the standard that all skaters should aspire to is being too selective, in my opinion.

Again, it's about control. I compare Mao's soft landings to the minimalisation of the entry splash by divers. I feel that she somehow pulls back on her landings while she's in the air, thus the lightness of her jumps.

Yu-Na jumps like a panther. Mao jumps like a dragonfly. Different styles, but in my opinion, equally as aesthetically pleasing. Should they not be recognised as such?
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:17 am

Speaking of judges...

I just read that a Korean judge will be on the LP panel tomorrow night, but there will be no Japanese one. This is the same judge that has talked of the 'human factor' in judging being present despite the new 'scientific' system.
I'm sure she's very qualified, but it still doesn't seem fair to have one judge out of two top contenders' countries on the panel, while the other country is not represented.

I believe even a tiny GOE or PCS mark (raised by lets say .25 - because it's human) can make the difference if both skate well...


oh well... I'm kind of ok with Asada not getting gold, because I think this is sometimes the case - genius is not recognized as it should be at times and that's just the way things are in life...
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:49 am

Warning: The following article is a collection of the NBC commentators being completely irrational and loosing their minds. But what else is new?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-olympics-womens-figures25-2010feb25,0,4740543.story
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:10 am

MaoMaoRevolution wrote:
Warning: The following article is a collection of the NBC commentators being completely irrational and loosing their minds. But what else is new?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-olympics-womens-figures25-2010feb25,0,4740543.story

Indeed, what else is new? Just the same old bunch of high-excitable bandwagon-jumpers determined to distort reality to fit their narrow world view.

Quote :
"Yuna is like Seabiscuit, a champion who found a way of breaking others' will," Hamilton said.

Er, was this meant to be complimentary?
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:19 am

MaoMaoRevolution wrote:
Warning: The following article is a collection of the NBC commentators being completely irrational and loosing their minds. But what else is new?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-olympics-womens-figures25-2010feb25,0,4740543.story


"Who is going to challenge her?" Hamilton asks, the question rhetorical. "No one is going to beat her. She is going to have to beat herself."

"No matter how well she skates Thursday, Asada will be overpowered by the dark, disturbing mood of Rachmaninoff's C Sharp Minor Prelude. Kim can float along to the jazzy notes of Gershwin's Concerto in F."

Vomitting... Whirly

Scott Hamilton should be forbidden to comment on sports, because he simply can't hold back his feelings and just roots for his favorites in such a shameless way. Disappointed
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:41 am

sofia wrote:
Hey guys, just be positive! cheers

It's the first time that Mao skated a perfectly clean short program in this season. This year it was her weak point. And what's even more important, she skated it perfectly in the Olympics, not just in a GP or Nationals. It's the Olympics, it's Vancouver that she has been waiting for years, and now she was able to skate perfectly! That was her dream. We should have to be happy now, no matter how high Kim's scores are. Cloud 9 I agree with you that Mao's scores should have been higher or Kim's lower, but we can't change the scoring system, we can't change the results, so please, just be happy!
This is going to be my last post in this forum, which makes me somewhat sad because I'm going to miss positive fans like you. After all, isn't it enough that Mao did so wonderful and finally overcome her struggles of Grand Prix? Some people said she was over, or she should get rid of Axels, or change coaches...but she found the strength and achieved her personal best.

I apologise to those I have troubled in previous pages. I joined this forum because I didn't like how Yuna forums talked bad about Mao, but I guess I was being too idealistc to expect not so many 'omg her score is so overrated' comments in a forum that's supposed to be dedicated to Mao, not to talk bad about Yuna, which pains me to read (and have no one else but me defending her). I'll just say good luck to both Mao and Yuna for tomorrow performance, and won't come back to congratulate them to avoid any further troubles. You won't have anyone trying to defend Yuna now, feel free to go nuts.
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:58 am

gagul_love wrote:
sofia wrote:
Hey guys, just be positive! cheers

It's the first time that Mao skated a perfectly clean short program in this season. This year it was her weak point. And what's even more important, she skated it perfectly in the Olympics, not just in a GP or Nationals. It's the Olympics, it's Vancouver that she has been waiting for years, and now she was able to skate perfectly! That was her dream. We should have to be happy now, no matter how high Kim's scores are. Cloud 9 I agree with you that Mao's scores should have been higher or Kim's lower, but we can't change the scoring system, we can't change the results, so please, just be happy!
This is going to be my last post in this forum, which makes me somewhat sad because I'm going to miss positive fans like you. After all, isn't it enough that Mao did so wonderful and finally overcome her struggles of Grand Prix? Some people said she was over, or she should get rid of Axels, or change coaches...but she found the strength and achieved her personal best.

I apologise to those I have troubled in previous pages. I joined this forum because I didn't like how Yuna forums talked bad about Mao, but I guess I was being too idealistc to expect not so many 'omg her score is so overrated' comments in a forum that's supposed to be dedicated to Mao, not to talk bad about Yuna, which pains me to read (and have no one else but me defending her). I'll just say good luck to both Mao and Yuna for tomorrow performance, and won't come back to congratulate them to avoid any further troubles. You won't have anyone trying to defend Yuna now, feel free to go nuts.

I am sorry, but its difficult support the overscored of someone when we really believe that Mao was good too, not for too much margin. I know right now Mao fans looks like the bad person of the movie, but is easy dont critizie to Mao when the judges do almost impossible she take the medal of Yuna. Yuna fans already know the it doesnt matter how other people skating yuna always will win. If the situation was the contrary I bet you that you or yuna fans would be same like us.

and I was in yuna forum too, but I left because is really difficult support to both of them, I mean how I can go there and to say that I like her but I believe Yuna is overscored, is their forum and dont need people annoying them (I am not saying you are annoying, not at all). in fact I like Yuna skating, but all this overscored is very annoying, and it is not just this competition.


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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:05 am

gagul_love wrote:

This is going to be my last post in this forum, which makes me somewhat sad because I'm going to miss positive fans like you. After all, isn't it enough that Mao did so wonderful and finally overcome her struggles of Grand Prix? Some people said she was over, or she should get rid of Axels, or change coaches...but she found the strength and achieved her personal best.

I apologise to those I have troubled in previous pages. I joined this forum because I didn't like how Yuna forums talked bad about Mao, but I guess I was being too idealistc to expect not so many 'omg her score is so overrated' comments in a forum that's supposed to be dedicated to Mao, not to talk bad about Yuna, which pains me to read (and have no one else but me defending her). I'll just say good luck to both Mao and Yuna for tomorrow performance, and won't come back to congratulate them to avoid any further troubles. You won't have anyone trying to defend Yuna now, feel free to go nuts.

It's too bad that you feel this way. As you said, you're a bigger fan of YK than of Mao, so it's probably easier for you to take offense over some of these comments. In a forum, everyone is expressing their opinions, and it's important to respect them. Maybe you feel tired of "defending" your favourite skater, but I think that a lot of us respect your opinions too- I don't think you "troubled" anyone as you said. Also, I don't think anyone here has denied her of being a good skater.

I see that people here are welcoming to all opinions, and I find that the points presented in this forum are all valid and do not have any personal attacks whatsoever. A lot of the criticisms I've seen recently are not about the skater but are about the system, which has many flaws to it. Besides, aren't debates and good discussions part of a forum anyway? Perhaps you'll be happier to see others compliment your favourite skater, but that doesn't always happen in a forum.

Perhaps this should be in a different thread...(ie. complaints or concerns)


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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:12 am

gagul_love wrote:
sofia wrote:
Hey guys, just be positive! cheers

It's the first time that Mao skated a perfectly clean short program in this season. This year it was her weak point. And what's even more important, she skated it perfectly in the Olympics, not just in a GP or Nationals. It's the Olympics, it's Vancouver that she has been waiting for years, and now she was able to skate perfectly! That was her dream. We should have to be happy now, no matter how high Kim's scores are. Cloud 9 I agree with you that Mao's scores should have been higher or Kim's lower, but we can't change the scoring system, we can't change the results, so please, just be happy!
This is going to be my last post in this forum, which makes me somewhat sad because I'm going to miss positive fans like you. After all, isn't it enough that Mao did so wonderful and finally overcome her struggles of Grand Prix? Some people said she was over, or she should get rid of Axels, or change coaches...but she found the strength and achieved her personal best.

I apologise to those I have troubled in previous pages. I joined this forum because I didn't like how Yuna forums talked bad about Mao, but I guess I was being too idealistc to expect not so many 'omg her score is so overrated' comments in a forum that's supposed to be dedicated to Mao, not to talk bad about Yuna, which pains me to read (and have no one else but me defending her). I'll just say good luck to both Mao and Yuna for tomorrow performance, and won't come back to congratulate them to avoid any further troubles. You won't have anyone trying to defend Yuna now, feel free to go nuts.

Do you really like both skaters? You never joined our conversations when we enjoy talking about Mao. Why do you just show up whenever someone is talking about Yu-na? I'm just curious... confused
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:27 am

Oscilla wrote:

Actually, I don't think that the speed of the rotation impresses the judges much, because it's something that comes with body type, not perfecting the technique. An example might be a skater like Kevin Reynolds, who rotates very fast in the air, but his technique, especially on axels, is flawed, which makes him a rather inconsistent skater.

The judges prefer jumps that cover a lot of distance, have a lot of height and flow on the landing. Those are things that are influenced by the skater's technique - a jump landed with great speed and excellent flow proves that the skater is very confident in his jumping technique and has good edge control.
Of course, rotating fast can be beneficial, too - it helps to execute upper tier jumps or do jumps with delayed rotation.


but why the speed is not taken in a count, is really difficult spin fast, furthermore of course Mao has better technique, seems like she never had a serious injured, like yuna or sasha and I think is because of her good technique
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:30 am

Unfortunately, speed and ice coverage is what the judges are looking for now. As chineseteacup has said, Mao has her own style but perhaps she can work on these two aspects of her jumps to receive higher GOE (she definitely has the talent cat ). And it's really the jump GOE that gives Yuna the advantage over other skaters. Since we can't change the system, the only way is to adapt to it I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:43 am

aoi88 wrote:
Unfortunately, speed and ice coverage is what the judges are looking for now. As chineseteacup has said, Mao has her own style but perhaps she can work on these two aspects of her jumps to receive higher GOE (she definitely has the talent cat ). And it's really the jump GOE that gives Yuna the advantage over other skaters. Since we can't change the system, the only way is to adapt to it I guess.

yes, adapte to the system, in fact is that Mao always do it ot try it, but if I am only her fan feel frustration, I cant imagine Maos feelings
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:55 am

I think the system can eventually be changed if enough skaters complain about it- why should we conform to something that has problems in it.

Case in point: allowing ladies to choose whether to do a 2A or a 3A like for men instead of only allowing them to do it in combination or out of footwork. Do men even do 3A out of footwork? I don't think so.
This way, Mao can do a 3A, then do a 3F-2L, then another jump (eg. 3Loop). If they want to play this game, then make it an even playing field and allow skaters to play it to the maximum. This would also encourage females to try the 3A.

It sucks that it encourages people to learn to play the numbers game, or hire people that do, instead of allowing them to focus on the skating or do challenges.

For example, some people can put two 3-3's in a program or choose to do one 3-3 and do a 2A-3 combination instead, which would be much easier and would get them the same base value points (or even higher because of the GOEs when they do better on an easier element). Same argument as if a skater did a Quad-3T and then a single triple vs. a 3-3 and a Quad. Again, base values the same- but 4-3 much harder. This discourages skaters from challenging themselves when they know they will not be awarded.

It's stupid how this system awards people who can play their numbers right rather than people who try their best at challenging themselves or trying something because they love figure skating and want to push the sport forward.

And as chineseteacup pointed out, why should all skaters jump/skate the same way to get a certain GOE, why should they change their styles because judges only prefer a certain way? Does this encourage art and individuality?

My point is, there are way too many problems with the current system. Anonymity of judges, number of judges on the scoring panel, allowing judges of certain nations to be on it and not others, randomly dropping scores (oh sorry, you lost because you were not as lucky and the two scores that were dropped were the highest in the group). It may seem like the current system is better, but because of all these factors, many statisticians see it being more of a problem than the old 6.0

We can follow it blindly, or we can propose changes. This is why I said that we can only focus on Mao's performances. Some may want to just jump on the bandwagon, but in history, changes are made by critical thinking and stepping up with other opinions- not always saying, hmm...I don't really agree, but I will try to see where judges are coming from anyway. And in the case of commentators- trying to convince the audience to do the same thing and seeing things from a different way, which is even worse.

Scott H. is just...I have no words for him. If he wants to give constructive criticism, fine, but just saying that the other skater gains 4 pts by "just breathing" is not in any way objective reporting and also shows the fundamental flaws in the way scores are added.

ISU's goal with this system was to offer a decrease in subjectivity, umm....I give them a GOE of -3 for that. End of rant.


Last edited by sapphiresky on Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:24 am; edited 12 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:02 am

http://vancouver2010.nikkansports.com/figure/news/p-sp-tp0-20100225-599844.html

Anybody read this topic?
SPではピンクから赤へと衣装の色を変えたが、フリーでは、赤と黒の慣れ親しんだ衣装を着用する。

She said in SP she will change costume from pink to red but in free she will wear
accustomed red and black. It's Mao own favorite color. She doesn't concern that
Olympic champion should wear blue as they say. So it should be no change in FS
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PostSubject: Re: Winter Olympics 2010   Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:15 am

sapphiresky wrote:
I think the system can eventually be changed if enough skaters complain about it.

Case in point: allowing ladies to choose whether to do a 2A or a 3A like for men instead of only allowing them to do it in combination or out of footwork.
This way, Mao can do a 3A, then do a 3F-2L, then another jump (eg. 3Loop). If they want to play this game, then make it an even playing field and allow skaters to play it to the maximum. This would also encourage females to try the 3A.

It sucks that it encourages people to learn to play the numbers game, or hire people that do, instead of allowing them to focus on the skating or do challenges.

For example, some people can put two 3-3's in a program or choose to do one 3-3 and do a 2A-3 combination instead, which would be much easier and would get them the same base value points (or even higher because of the GOEs when they do better on an easier element). Same argument as if a skater did a Quad-3T and then a single triple vs. a 3-3 and a Quad. Again, base values the same- but 4-3 much harder. This discourages skaters from challenging themselves when they know they will not be awarded.

It's stupid how this system awards people who can play their numbers right rather than people who try their best at challenging themselves or trying something because they love figure skating and want to push the sport forward.

My point is, there are way too many problems with the current system. Anonymity of judges, number of judges on the scoring panel, allowing judges of certain nations to be on it and not others, randomly dropping scores (oh sorry, you lost because you were not as lucky and the two scores that were dropped were the highest in the group). It may seem like the current system is better, but because of all these factors, many statisticians see it being more of a problem than the old 6.0

We can follow it blindly, or we can propose changes. This is why I said that we can only focus on Mao's performances. Some may want to just jump on the bandwagon, but in history, changes are made by critical thinking and stepping up with other opinions- not always saying, hmm...I don't really agree, but I will try to see where judges are coming from anyway. And in the case of commentators- trying to convince the audience to do the same thing and seeing things from a different way, which is even worse.

Scott H. is just...I have no words for him. If he wants to give constructive criticism, fine, but just saying that the other skater gains 4 pts by "just breathing" is not in any way objective reporting.

ISU's goal with this system was to offer a decrease in subjectivity, umm....I give them a GOE of -3 for that. End of rant.

Good points. I hope the system gets changed by Sochi flower . I can't stand Scott's commentaries, so I am not watching the NBC coverage lol!
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