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Star85
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PostSubject: More new rules   Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:29 pm

Hey guys, I just found out about another new change. This one is about Worlds. Only the top placer, or placers from each countries nationals - depending on which country, and how many they are allowed to send to worlds - goes straight to worlds. The other skaters who would normally go on straight through to worlds too will now have to go through an extra qualifier event the week before worlds.

This change was made because they felt worlds was being drug out way too long, as there have been many skaters participating who were no where near the quality of the top skaters. They are obviously referring to skaters from countries who have much less interest in figure skating, or are way less evolved in figure skating, and their skaters are not on the same level as countries such as Japan, the US, Canada, etc. They say they are going to do this as a trial, and then rediscuss at the next ISU congress session.

I can see where they are coming from, and this new rule does make sense to me. This makes me think of how I see great skaters not make it to worlds every year from when I watch US, and Japanese nationals. Skaters who are much better than skaters from other countries who have far less competition to get to worlds. I guess this change does make me feel a little better on that note.

Here's the link to the article I read:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/figure-skating-shakes-up-schedule/article1610360/?cmpid=rss1&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheGlobeAndMail-Front+(The+Globe+and+Mail+-+Latest+News)

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:51 pm

Interesting. It's weird to imagine that a skater like Yukari was not selected while there were so many low level girls in Vancouver. But another event may be tiring for skaters, and those who were previously qualified will have an advantage.

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Last edited by alyssa on Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:23 pm

Wouldn't a better way of giving more top skaters more opportunities to participate at Worlds be to give their countries more competitive places? Taking away places from countries that don't have much of a skating culture isn't the best way to encourage those countries to support and help their athletes more.

I'm worried that this may make the Worlds too exclusive. Surely all countries should at least have the opportunity to enter their skaters into an international competition such as the Worlds. The athletes have sure worked hard for it.
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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:49 pm

What I don't get is why it has to be a qualifying event. That, and the fact that its held a week before Worlds doesn't sound like a very good idea. scratch

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:24 am

clovera wrote:
What I don't get is why it has to be a qualifying event. That, and the fact that its held a week before Worlds doesn't sound like a very good idea. scratch

As far as them cutting down on skaters who qualify to compete at worlds, I can understand where they are coming from, although there are very valid arguments against it. One thing about the whole rule that I'm not very in favor of though, is the event being the week before the real competition. Maybe doing something such as taking the top 40 (or whatever number) scores from all national championships in the world would be a much simpler, better way... That way, not only would it cut back on skaters who are not as developed, but it could give some really great skaters who wouldn't normally make it to worlds a chance to go.

On the other hand, like someone said, it's not a very good way to help the sport grow in lesser developed countries.... There's still always Jr worlds though Whirly

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:57 am

Star85 wrote:
clovera wrote:
What I don't get is why it has to be a qualifying event. That, and the fact that its held a week before Worlds doesn't sound like a very good idea. scratch

As far as them cutting down on skaters who qualify to compete at worlds, I can understand where they are coming from, although there are very valid arguments against it. One thing about the whole rule that I'm not very in favor of though, is the event being the week before the real competition. Maybe doing something such as taking the top 40 (or whatever number) scores from all national championships in the world would be a much simpler, better way... That way, not only would it cut back on skaters who are not as developed, but it could give some really great skaters who wouldn't normally make it to worlds a chance to go.

On the other hand, like someone said, it's not a very good way to help the sport grow in lesser developed countries.... There's still always Jr worlds though Whirly

Good idea, but the scores at nationals tends to be inflated in some country...so it isn't realistic. They have to compete against each other in the same event.
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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:44 pm

bibi wrote:
Good idea, but the scores at nationals tends to be inflated in some country...so it isn't realistic. They have to compete against each other in the same event.
True...Perhaps we can use the results (not scores) from a championship competition prior to Worlds - Euros and 4CC - to determine the cutoff?

What I also found puzzling is that the #2 or #3 skater/pair from each nation - depending on whether said nation has 2 or 3 spots in a particular event - are required to participate. The idea of Kozu, Adam Rippon, or Kevin Reynolds (just to name a few) having to qualify for Worlds amongst a slew of low-ranked skaters is borderline ridiculous. Lips sealed

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:57 pm

bibi wrote:
Star85 wrote:
clovera wrote:
What I don't get is why it has to be a qualifying event. That, and the fact that its held a week before Worlds doesn't sound like a very good idea. scratch

As far as them cutting down on skaters who qualify to compete at worlds, I can understand where they are coming from, although there are very valid arguments against it. One thing about the whole rule that I'm not very in favor of though, is the event being the week before the real competition. Maybe doing something such as taking the top 40 (or whatever number) scores from all national championships in the world would be a much simpler, better way... That way, not only would it cut back on skaters who are not as developed, but it could give some really great skaters who wouldn't normally make it to worlds a chance to go.

On the other hand, like someone said, it's not a very good way to help the sport grow in lesser developed countries.... There's still always Jr worlds though Whirly

Good idea, but the scores at nationals tends to be inflated in some country...so it isn't realistic. They have to compete against each other in the same event.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that... And that would cause the inflation to get even worse! cyclops

I'm starting to wonder if these ISU people ever have as in dept discussions about all this stuff as we do. Surprised

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:33 pm

Star85 wrote:
bibi wrote:
Star85 wrote:
clovera wrote:
What I don't get is why it has to be a qualifying event. That, and the fact that its held a week before Worlds doesn't sound like a very good idea. scratch

As far as them cutting down on skaters who qualify to compete at worlds, I can understand where they are coming from, although there are very valid arguments against it. One thing about the whole rule that I'm not very in favor of though, is the event being the week before the real competition. Maybe doing something such as taking the top 40 (or whatever number) scores from all national championships in the world would be a much simpler, better way... That way, not only would it cut back on skaters who are not as developed, but it could give some really great skaters who wouldn't normally make it to worlds a chance to go.

On the other hand, like someone said, it's not a very good way to help the sport grow in lesser developed countries.... There's still always Jr worlds though Whirly

Good idea, but the scores at nationals tends to be inflated in some country...so it isn't realistic. They have to compete against each other in the same event.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that... And that would cause the inflation to get even worse! cyclops

I'm starting to wonder if these ISU people ever have as in dept discussions about all this stuff as we do. Surprised

Very Happy One would hope so, but looking at the recent rule changes one would think not.

My biggest problem is like someone else said, that developing skate countries will lose spots.

I guess they considered it all but considered that it's a sacrifice that they wanted to make Whirly

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:15 am

Communication 1619 - Singles and Pairs - Technical Rules Changes from the Congress
http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1892

The changes in technical rules:

1. Technical Elements (Sr & Jr)
Half-loop when used in combinations/sequences is considered as a listed jump with the value of a Loop (1Lo). This means that jump+half loop+sal/flip will be called as a 3 jump combination instead of a jump sequence starting 2010-11 season.

The concluding upright position at the end of a spin is not considered to be another position independent of the number of revolutions as long as in the final wind-up no additional spin feature is executed.

2. Short Program for Singles (Sr & Jr)

* The SP consists of 7 required elements instead of 8.
* For Junior and Senior Men only one step sequence.
* For Junior and Senior Ladies, no spiral sequence is included. Any spirals done in the SP will be rewarded in the Transitions mark.
* Senior Ladies can have either a 2A or 3A as the required axel-type jump. Allowing a 3A is new.
* Senior Men can attempt two different quad jumps, one in the required combination jump and another in the required solo jump.
* Senior Men must show more variety in spin positions. The landing position of the flying spin must be different than the spin in one position (these are two of the three required spins in the SP). So, they cannot do both a flying sit spin and sit spin in a SP, they would have to do a flying camel spin and then a sit spin, for example.


3. Free Program for Singles (Sr & Jr)

* Limit of two 2A jumps per program, instead of three.
* For Senior Men, the second step sequence will be awarded a fixed base value and evaluated by judges in GOE only.
* For Senior Ladies, the spiral sequence will be awarded a fixed base value and evaluated by judges in GOE only. Have to do at least two positions not less than three seconds long, or do one position for at least six seconds.


4. Pairs: Short Program (Sr & Jr)

* The SP consists of 7 required elements instead of 8.
* The required spin (SBS spin combination or pair spin) will alternate each season. SBS spin combination will be the required spin in 2010-11. Before the change both pair spin and SBS spin were required in the SP.
* A step sequence will always be required in the SP, instead of alternating with the spiral sequence like in past seasons.


5. Pairs: Free Program (Sr & Jr)

* The required jump combination can consist of 2 or 3 jumps now.
* For Seniors, the death spiral performed in the Free skating must be different than the death spiral performed in the SP.
* A spiral sequence will always be required in the Free Skate (instead of alternating with a required step sequence), and evaluated similarly to the spiral sequence in the Ladies free skate.


6. Illegal Elements
If there is an illegal movement during the execution of any element, the deduction for an illegal movement (- 2.0) will apply and the element will receive Level 1 if the requirements for at least Level 1 are fulfilled. Otherwise the element will be called “No Level”. Same rule applies in Ice Dance as well.
Previously, the skater(s) would receive no credit for the botched element.

Changes in Special Regulations

1. Tech specialists from the host member may be used as the asst. tech specialist in the case of extenuating circumstances.
2. When a "fresh start" is given, the -2.0 deduction will no longer be given but the judges may affect the Components scores given.
3. Costume, prop, and music violations (-1.0) will be decided on by the Referee and Judges panel. There must be a majority decision to apply the deduction.
4. The Technical Controller and the Tech Specialists will decide on deductions for falls and illegal elements, with a majority decision required.


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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:37 pm

I think I have talked about the spiral issue on here before, but it's really bothering me! It really seems like they do not value spirals as much now.... I have to strongly disagree. I think they are one of the basic, fundamental elements of figure skating (For ladies anyway. Not so much for men), and I would hate to see programs with less, or none of them at all affraid. I'm also worried that the quality of spirals may go downhill as well. These changes don't necessarily mean that will happen, but it is definitely a possibility. Sad I'm hoping that something positive will some out of this. I'm hoping to NEVER see a SP without a spiral! And I'm hoping that maybe this will give the skaters more flexibility to be more creative, and do longer spirals.

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:40 pm

Star85 wrote:
I think I have talked about the spiral issue on here before, but it's really bothering me! It really seems like they do not value spirals as much now.... I have to strongly disagree. I think they are one of the basic, fundamental elements of figure skating (For ladies anyway. Not so much for men), and I would hate to see programs with less, or none of them at all affraid. I'm also worried that the quality of spirals may go downhill as well. These changes don't necessarily mean that will happen, but it is definitely a possibility. Sad I'm hoping that something positive will some out of this. I'm hoping to NEVER see a SP without a spiral! And I'm hoping that maybe this will give the skaters more flexibility to be more creative, and do longer spirals.

I liked the reducing of positions (now they'll have to do only 2), but not the discarding in the SP and the "all or nothing" thing. Disappointed

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:09 pm

alyssa wrote:
I liked the reducing of positions (now they'll have to do only 2), but not the discarding in the SP and the "all or nothing" thing. Disappointed
I'm not too keen on the fixed base value + GoE approach that is being taken for spirals and the second step sequence (for the men) either, although the reduction of positions is a great move. No more catchfoot spirals by ladies who can't pull it off well! Laughing

The spin variation rule for men is going to be interesting to watch in action - expecting a great level 4 camel spin + variation from the majority of the men is an impossible request, so something tells me we'll be seeing a drastic increase in the number of USp (upright spins) on the protocols this upcoming season. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:30 pm

alyssa wrote:
Star85 wrote:
I think I have talked about the spiral issue on here before, but it's really bothering me! It really seems like they do not value spirals as much now.... I have to strongly disagree. I think they are one of the basic, fundamental elements of figure skating (For ladies anyway. Not so much for men), and I would hate to see programs with less, or none of them at all affraid. I'm also worried that the quality of spirals may go downhill as well. These changes don't necessarily mean that will happen, but it is definitely a possibility. Sad I'm hoping that something positive will some out of this. I'm hoping to NEVER see a SP without a spiral! And I'm hoping that maybe this will give the skaters more flexibility to be more creative, and do longer spirals.

I liked the reducing of positions (now they'll have to do only 2), but not the discarding in the SP and the "all or nothing" thing. Disappointed

Yes, this actually the one thing I DO like. I prefer long, held out spirals to the shorter, position changing ones. Everything else though, I don't like Sad

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:32 am

No more Qualifyihg Round on WC from next season!
And yes for using vocal music in Singles and Pairs from season 2014/2015!
And Senior minimum age is 15 for all events (no more 14 year olds at the GP) from season 2014/2015!

Recently concluded ISU Congress in Kuala Lumpur. There are get some changes...

http://www2.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-205151-222374-nav-list,00.html?id=1080
In pdf: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3509
ISU 54th Ordinary Congress
The International Skating Union’s 54th Ordinary Congress concluded on 15 June 2012 in Kuala Lumpur (MAS). Over 200 Delegates from 76 ISU Member federations were present to vote on over 340 proposals.

Quote :
Single and Pair Skating and Ice Dance

The minimum age requirement in the Figure Branch has been changed to 15 which now includes all Senior International Competitions and not only ISU Championships and Olympic Winter Games. This change is effective starting in the season 2014/15. Minor adjustments have also been made in the Novice and Junior age categories.

The Single and Pair Skating and Ice Dance Technical Committees proposed several changes to make the Special Regulations and Technical Rules consistent across the disciplines, this harmonization of the rules were unanimously approved by Congress.

An additional Base Value has been introduced, the Base Value now ranges from level 0 to 4.

As of the season 2014/15, vocal music can be used in Single and Pair Skating.

Congress passed a change to remove the preliminary rounds at ISU Figure Skating Championships which will impact the time schedule starting with next season’s ISU Championships.

In line with ISU Championships 16 Pair Skaters and 20 Ice Dance Couples will qualify for the Free Program at the Olympic Winter Games.

The introduction of an examination for ISU Referees and International Judges and Referees was voted in by Congress.
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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:08 am

Sviatoslava thanks for the news.
I agree about the age limit for ALL ISU events. Being able to compete at senior grand prix, but being too young for EC/WCH and olypics was stupid (imo).

This was an interesting read. I see that the long preparation for jumps is finally getting minus GOE. It was a bit ridiculous seeing skaters like Scizny taking forever to jump and still get +0.5 GOE.
The only thing I don't get is what do they mean with unaesthetic position(s) in spins. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:23 am

zarinaballerina wrote:
Sviatoslava thanks for the news.
I agree about the age limit for ALL ISU events. Being able to compete at senior grand prix, but , being too young for EC/WCH and olypics was stupid (imo).
You are welcome, zarinaballerina! Very Happy

I agreed with your opinion about. And it's interesting how new rules will work in practice at competitions.
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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:33 am

In add. There are news about fs championыhips for season 2014/2015.

http://www2.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-205151-222374-nav-list,00.html?id=1081
Season 2014/15 ISU Championships

ISU European Figure Skating Championships – Stockholm/Sweden

ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships – Seoul/Republic of Korea

ISU Junior World Figure Skating Championships – Pending

ISU World Figure Skating Championships – Shanghai/China
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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:23 am

Big news - GOOD big news! cheers I wonder why they are waiting so long to enforce them. The age thing really did need to get changed again. That will be interesting and different to see skating to vocal music in competition.

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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:57 pm

In add - more rules from Congress.
(pdf)

1) Single & Pair Skating - Changes in Special Regulations and Technical Rules accepted by the 54th ISU Congress: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3568

2) Ice Dance - Changes in Special Regulations and Technical Rules accepted by the 54th ISU Congress: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3566
3) Ice Dance Scales of Values as of July 2012: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3567
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PostSubject: Re: More new rules   Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:21 am

Thank you, Sviatoslava.

I don't know what to make of choreographic sequence (replacing spiral sequence) which has to be performed later than the footwork. I guess we'll be seeing a lot of programs with spirals at the end. Whirly
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