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 NHK Trophy 2010

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polosatik
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:21 pm

Haidogirl wrote:
Bawling Bawling Bawling
Why are you crying lovely?
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:27 pm

inskate, when you say Mao is going back to her old technique, and you mentioned her lutz, do you mean the technique that kept causing her to flutz?

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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:28 pm

polosatik wrote:
inskate wrote:
polosatik wrote:
Inskate,what about Patty Chan? I always thought he is overall deep edge skater Smile

Oh, certainly! Smile I just didn't mention everybody because the list would get quite long. Sweatdrop

And now about the thing that worries me.

There was that recent clip where Mao mentioned that somebody told her that it's possible for her to go back to the ease that she jumped with when she was 15 years old, and so she won't change her jumping style, she will go back to her old one.

I was hoping this was just a figure of speech, and that Mao meant just that she wanted to go back to jumping as easily as she did when she was younger, but I just got more worried by today's news clip:


[Click to enlarge]
This is Mao's 3Lz attempt from today's practice clip, and as you can see, Mao went back to her oldest technique. Sad

It will be a miracle if she manages to keep an outside edge with body leaning so far to the inside during the takeoff. What's more, this take-off style is not very conductive to getting high GOEs - the jumps aren't very likely to have great height and cover a big distance.

Yes, Mao's jumps looked nice and solid when she was younger, but that was because her body was smaller. A lot of tiny skaters can jump easily even with awful technique, but it gets difficult when the skater grows taller. Caroline Zhang and many other skaters were also a strong jumper when they were young, but their technique flaws eventually came out to the surface.

Well, I hope it's just a false alarm and I'm worried for nothing. Maybe as Mao mentioned, she has "bad and good days", and today was simply a bad day. Smile'

I really hope coach Sato doesn't encourage Mao to go back to her old technique. I'm afraid she might turn into another Yukari Nakano - a lovely skater, but with flawed jumping technique that nobody cared to fix, and so she got low scores even if she skated clean. Sad
I think Mao can't become a Yukari just because her technique is not as worse as Yukari's. And also for me it's not so clear that she's back to her old technique,now Mao is not in a good condition so we'll see how improvement through out the season will go. For some reason I don't worry at all now.

I always felt Yukari was dinged for her "leg wrap", which the commentators always brought up. Midori also had it but then she made up for it by her superhuman height and distance of her jumps.
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:31 pm

inskate wrote:
polosatik wrote:
Inskate,what about Patty Chan? I always thought he is overall deep edge skater Smile

Oh, certainly! Smile I just didn't mention everybody because the list would get quite long. Sweatdrop

And now about the thing that worries me.

There was that recent clip where Mao mentioned that somebody told her that it's possible for her to go back to the ease that she jumped with when she was 15 years old, and so she won't change her jumping style, she will go back to her old one.

I was hoping this was just a figure of speech, and that Mao meant just that she wanted to go back to jumping as easily as she did when she was younger, but I just got more worried by today's news clip:


[Click to enlarge]
This is Mao's 3Lz attempt from today's practice clip, and as you can see, Mao went back to her oldest technique. Sad

It will be a miracle if she manages to keep an outside edge with body leaning so far to the inside during the takeoff. What's more, this take-off style is not very conductive to getting high GOEs - the jumps aren't very likely to have great height and cover a big distance.

Yes, Mao's jumps looked nice and solid when she was younger, but that was because her body was smaller. A lot of tiny skaters can jump easily even with awful technique, but it gets difficult when the skater grows taller. Caroline Zhang and many other skaters were also a strong jumper when they were young, but their technique flaws eventually came out to the surface.

Well, I hope it's just a false alarm and I'm worried for nothing. Maybe as Mao mentioned, she has "bad and good days", and today was simply a bad day. Smile'

I really hope coach Sato doesn't encourage Mao to go back to her old technique. I'm afraid she might turn into another Yukari Nakano - a lovely skater, but with flawed jumping technique that nobody cared to fix, and so she got low scores even if she skated clean. Sad


Where did you get this picture? I mean, which clip? I only found one clip from their practice today, and it showed Mao's 3A's, which looked fantastic. I just hope it'll look fantastic throughout the competition, too.
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:37 pm

Mao_Asada_sunrise, this screencap is from clip posted earlier by purplemaze but it is deleted.
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:43 pm

Can't wait Smile !!!! Does anyone know how long will last the ladies short program? Because I want to know if I'll have the time to watch Mao before going to school tomorrow, I hope so Very Happy !!
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:46 pm

bibi wrote:
Can't wait Smile !!!! Does anyone know how long will last the ladies short program? Because I want to know if I'll have the time to watch Mao before going to school tomorrow, I hope so Very Happy !!
1 hour and 13 minutes Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:57 pm

Star85 wrote:
inskate, when you say Mao is going back to her old technique, and you mentioned her lutz, do you mean the technique that kept causing her to flutz?
Yes, that too. Her body leaned so far to the inside on the take-off taht I just don't see a way for her to keep the outside edge until the take-off unless Mao learns to bend her ankle 90% to the inside. That's just not humanly possible...
Also, her torso/free leg position was back to the old one (torso low, free leg straight and extended; the torso and free leg create a straight line parallel to the ice) and the use of the toe-pick seemed to be back to the old one (the toe-pick stays on the ice for a longer period of time and at a certain point the blade gets closer to the ice).

I'll post a comparison in a sec.


Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

Where did you get this picture? I mean, which clip? I only found one clip from their practice today, and it showed Mao's 3A's, which looked fantastic. I just hope it'll look fantastic throughout the competition, too.

It was from the clip purplemaze posted earlier in this thread, but it says "the video is private now". Sad I'm reuploading it now...

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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:59 pm

polosatik wrote:
bibi wrote:
Can't wait Smile !!!! Does anyone know how long will last the ladies short program? Because I want to know if I'll have the time to watch Mao before going to school tomorrow, I hope so Very Happy !!
1 hour and 13 minutes Very Happy
Oh my god, I'm soooo lucky!! ahaha I've to go at 7h15 am here and the competition will end at 7h13 Smile !! Hope everything will go as expected so i'll see Mao skate Smile Thank you so much!!
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:18 pm

polosatik wrote:
Haidogirl wrote:
Bawling Bawling Bawling
Why are you crying lovely?

because the NHK will start in less than 24 hours and i still didnt find a livestream! I so want to watch it live Worship

I remember i watched the Worlds in march over a livestream, but i cant remember what page that was, someting with pandora?
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:20 pm

I don't think we have to worry much about the practice clip, inskate. Like you said, it could be a false alarm and they only showed a quick clip of that jump. In a recent interview after JO, they interviewed both Mao and Sato. While Mao said she hoped to bring back her jumps as they used to be, Sato said it's not "bringing back" but something along the lines of aiming to do them in the correct way. So I don't think he would let her use her old technique, especially if it would be hard for her to do a correct lutz with that technique. The one thing that I think may be possible is that for this specific competition, Sato may let Mao use the technique she's comfortable with so that she would be more likely to land the jump. Because it's unlikely they corrected the problems in a short time, and Sato seems more in favor of a gradual progress.
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:23 pm

aoi88 wrote:
The one thing that I think may be possible is that for this specific competition, Sato may let Mao use the technique she's comfortable with so that she would be more likely to land the jump. Because it's unlikely they corrected the problems in a short time, and Sato seems more in favor of a gradual progress.
I agree. This is most likely to be truth. Mao noted that her goal is to land all jumps in this competition, she can't do a correct lutz still,so that's the case I suppose.
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:26 pm

Haidogirl wrote:
polosatik wrote:
Haidogirl wrote:
Bawling Bawling Bawling
Why are you crying lovely?

because the NHK will start in less than 24 hours and i still didnt find a livestream! I so want to watch it live Worship

I remember i watched the Worlds in march over a livestream, but i cant remember what page that was, someting with pandora?
Maybe they will show it on keyHole TV? Clovera, do you know something about it? I know NTV+ link, but most likely it's only for Russia. http://tvali.ge/index.php?action=sat&channel=70954
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:26 pm

inskate wrote:
Star85 wrote:
inskate, when you say Mao is going back to her old technique, and you mentioned her lutz, do you mean the technique that kept causing her to flutz?
Yes, that too. Her body leaned so far to the inside on the take-off taht I just don't see a way for her to keep the outside edge until the take-off unless Mao learns to bend her ankle 90% to the inside. That's just not humanly possible...
Also, her torso/free leg position was back to the old one (torso low, free leg straight and extended; the torso and free leg create a straight line parallel to the ice) and the use of the toe-pick seemed to be back to the old one (the toe-pick stays on the ice for a longer period of time and at a certain point the blade gets closer to the ice).

I'll post a comparison in a sec.


Mao_Asada_sunrise wrote:

Where did you get this picture? I mean, which clip? I only found one clip from their practice today, and it showed Mao's 3A's, which looked fantastic. I just hope it'll look fantastic throughout the competition, too.

It was from the clip purplemaze posted earlier in this thread, but it says "the video is private now". Sad I'm reuploading it now...


Will you please post the link? Did you see her 3A's?
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:45 pm

polosatik wrote:
Haidogirl wrote:
polosatik wrote:
Haidogirl wrote:
Bawling Bawling Bawling
Why are you crying lovely?

because the NHK will start in less than 24 hours and i still didnt find a livestream! I so want to watch it live Worship

I remember i watched the Worlds in march over a livestream, but i cant remember what page that was, someting with pandora?
Maybe they will show it on keyHole TV? Clovera, do you know something about it? I know NTV+ link, but most likely it's only for Russia. http://tvali.ge/index.php?action=sat&channel=70954

Hey Polosatik, I can see it! It is playing football? Suspect geek
In this channel I can see NHK? It will stream it live?
sorry for so many questions lol! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:49 pm

Dani-Chan wrote:
polosatik wrote:
Haidogirl wrote:
polosatik wrote:
Haidogirl wrote:
Bawling Bawling Bawling
Why are you crying lovely?

because the NHK will start in less than 24 hours and i still didnt find a livestream! I so want to watch it live Worship

I remember i watched the Worlds in march over a livestream, but i cant remember what page that was, someting with pandora?
Maybe they will show it on keyHole TV? Clovera, do you know something about it? I know NTV+ link, but most likely it's only for Russia. http://tvali.ge/index.php?action=sat&channel=70954

Hey Polosatik, I can see it! It is playing football? Suspect geek
In this channel I can see NHK? It will stream it live?
sorry for so many questions lol! lol!
this is NTV+ Very Happy And yep, it is football) It can be behind the actual time about 5 minutes but I'm not sure) We will practice it at dancers.Some people had problems with it but for me it's fine, so I hope I can watch dance and pairs competition. I won't be able to watch ladies No


Last edited by polosatik on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:50 pm

Quote :
Hey Polosatik, I can see it! It is playing football? Suspect geek
In this channel I can see NHK? It will stream it live?
sorry for so many questions lol! lol!

Yeah i can see it too, they play soccer though silent
Now i feel alot better sunny

Thank you! Cheering
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:14 pm

Here's the clip:
http://www.mediafire.com/?97yk7aujo3t131l
[2:40 - Lutz practice]

Triple axels were not very hood in this clip (mostly almost half a rotation UR), but they were better in the later clip. I'm not worried about the axels. Smile

[quote=aoi88]The one thing that I think may be possible is that for this specific competition, Sato may let Mao use the technique she's comfortable with so that she would be more likely to land the jump. [/quote]

That wouldn't be a good thing at all. Learning a new technique is like re-programing the brain - it's not only knowing how to do the jump correctly, but also erasing the old technique so that the brain doesn't get confused.
I thinki by now Mao can do all the jumps correctly in practice. There are even clips. Now it's just a question of doing them over and over again, until the brain gets used to it and stops trying to switch back to the old technique in a high-pressure situation (like a competition)). It usually takes about two seasons. As I said, I fully expected a lot of mistakes, pops, etc. in Mao's first competition. I'd take them as a good sign. But switching back to the old technique in two jumps in a row worries me.

I'd love to see Mao's flip now!


Anyway, here's a comparison between two take-offs:
http://www.mediafire.com/?97yk7aujo3t131l

I just took some screencaps, so you can open them side by side and compare.

N_Lz - the take-off of a double Lutz from a practice session with Nagakubo. I picked this one because the angle was the best and there was no annoying subtitles at the bottom. All of the Lutzes (from popped to the triple ones) had the same technique on the take-off, although the triples had poor landings at that moment yet. There were also two clean-ish ones, but they had the subtitles at the bottom, so annoying. Sad

N_Lz_01 - approach, Mao starts to enter the curve that will be traced by her outside edge
NHK_Lz_01 - approach, Mao skates on a flat (she enters the curve a bit later)

N_Lz_02 - approach, Mao stays on the curve, you can see the deep outside edge, look at the torso position and the free leg
NHK_Lz_02 - approach, this is the deepest point of the curve, after that Mao will switch to shallow/flat edge, look at the body/free leg position and compare it to N_Lz_02

N_Lz_03 - approach, this is the point at which Mao's torso is at its lowest and her free leg at its highest. As you can see, her body still stays fairly upright, the free leg is slightly bent.
NHK_Lz_03 - approach, now you can clearly see the difference - the torso is dropped low and creates a straight line with the torso; the line is nearly parallel to the ice. As it is difficult to keep the outside edge in such a position, the edge mecame shallow, almost flat

N_Lz_04 - take-off, the body stays fairly upright and doesn't lean to the inside, knees are bent, the outside edge is achieved trhanks to the angle of hips and bent knee, the ankle is slightly bent, the oputside edge is still fairly deep
NHK_Lz_04 - take-off, the body leans completely to the inside, the knees are almost straight, the edge is now deep inside

N_Lz_05 - the very last moment that the take-off edge is in contact with the ice, as you can see it's still the outside edge, torso is upright
NHK_Lz_05 - actually, it's the same screencap as NHK_Lz_04. Smile' It's also the last moment before the take-off.

N_Lz_06 - rotation, by the time half a rotation is completed Mao is already up in the air
NHK_Lz_06 - rotation, the blade stays on the ice a bit longer

NHK_Lz_07-08 - the landing at NHK, as you can see the jump was UR. Sad The other two attempts weren't any better, either (one UR, double-footed and turned out, one doubled).

If this was just one attempt with the old technique, I'd think it was just a lapse, but 3 attempts in a row makes me worried. Sad

N_3Lz_01 - the close-up of the takeoff of a triple Lutz from the practice session with Nagakubo. Not the deepest outside edge, but it would probably be ratified as a clean Lutz.
N_3F_01 - for comparison's sake, Mao's 3F take-off from the practice session with Nagakubo. If you compare it to the Lutz take-off, you can clearly see the difference. Approaching 3Lz Mao traces a curve with her outside edge, approaching 3F - on the inside one.


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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:18 pm

polosatik wrote:
Haidogirl wrote:
polosatik wrote:
Haidogirl wrote:
Bawling Bawling Bawling
Why are you crying lovely?

because the NHK will start in less than 24 hours and i still didnt find a livestream! I so want to watch it live Worship

I remember i watched the Worlds in march over a livestream, but i cant remember what page that was, someting with pandora?
Maybe they will show it on keyHole TV? Clovera, do you know something about it? I know NTV+ link, but most likely it's only for Russia. http://tvali.ge/index.php?action=sat&channel=70954

Bawling The web that clovera gave us for JO (keyHole TV) didn't work to me, I don't know if it was because I live in Perú or because I have a macbook. So I can't watch NHk on live, I have to wait until someone put the video in youtube Depressed Crying
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:25 pm

thanks polosatik for the link but what time will it start, and is the time the same here in europe like in russia????. I just don't know when to expect to see it...
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:32 pm


Wow, inskate, you're detailed as always. affraid
I agree it's not ideal to go back to the old technqiue but in the intense atmosphere of competition, it's a difficult decision to make, because the likelihood of landing the jump is still better than popping it. Also, I think this may be the clip from morining (where she didn't do as well). I heard she made some changes in a later session. I have to say, I am one of those who actually liked Mao's flutz. I thought it was a nice looking jump, despite the incorrect edge. She always had good height on it (more so than her flip) and decent flow. Actually, I am more worried about Mao's flip though, since it is more essential to her programs than her lutz (which she performs once), so I really want to see a practice clip of that jump.
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:43 pm

ballerinamao wrote:
thanks polosatik for the link but what time will it start, and is the time the same here in europe like in russia????. I just don't know when to expect to see it...

If im not completly wrong, i would say its 12am in middle europe, but i cant say it 100% study
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:50 pm

polosatik wrote:
Dani-Chan wrote:
polosatik wrote:
Haidogirl wrote:
polosatik wrote:
Haidogirl wrote:
Bawling Bawling Bawling
Why are you crying lovely?

because the NHK will start in less than 24 hours and i still didnt find a livestream! I so want to watch it live Worship

I remember i watched the Worlds in march over a livestream, but i cant remember what page that was, someting with pandora?
Maybe they will show it on keyHole TV? Clovera, do you know something about it? I know NTV+ link, but most likely it's only for Russia. http://tvali.ge/index.php?action=sat&channel=70954

Hey Polosatik, I can see it! It is playing football? Suspect geek
In this channel I can see NHK? It will stream it live?
sorry for so many questions lol! lol!
this is NTV+ Very Happy And yep, it is football) It can be behind the actual time about 5 minutes but I'm not sure) We will practice it at dancers.Some people had problems with it but for me it's fine, so I hope I can watch dance and pairs competition. I won't be able to watch ladies No

Thanks so much flower flower
awwww I am sorry you can't watch the ladies, I hope we have good news to tell you later Hell, no! Hell, no! Daisies for you Cheering
Go Mao! Many Hearts
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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:05 pm

Results page!

Cheering

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PostSubject: Re: NHK Trophy 2010   Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:42 pm

inskate, you are such a wonderful person. thank you so much. it's nice to have someone explain these technical things to us nonskaters!! the more i read, the more i am inspired to actually try skating. it's 7 in the morning here and your posts guys really make the morning right. thanks to all!!!

go mao!!!!

Thank you!
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