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 Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing

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ddmm
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:19 am

Congrats to Alyssa Czisny.

But am I the only one...it's so boring....

I miss our dear Mao Sad Depressed Crying
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:23 am

Phew, the ladies event was very, very strong!
The top 5 all skated wonderfully, while Rachael unfortunately stuck out like a sore thumb today again (in a bad way). Sweatdrop

1 Alissa CZISNY USA 180.75 1 3
2 Carolina KOSTNER ITA 178.60 2 4
3 Kanako MURAKAMI JPN 178.59 3 2
4 Akiko SUZUKI JPN 173.72 4 5
5 Miki ANDO JPN 173.15 5 1
6 Rachael FLATT USA 127.57 6 6

Quick thoughts:
Like a Star @ heaven Such a shame regarding Miki's SP, because she would have easily won otherwise.
Like a Star @ heaven Akiko's PCS went down again. Blegh. Twisted Evil
Like a Star @ heaven Kanako lands a clean, ratified 3Lo with +GoE; I'm happy to see it's no longer her nemesis.
Like a Star @ heaven CaroK avoids falling, which does wonders in boosting how her program's overall "look" today.
Like a Star @ heaven Alissa gets 6 triples down although the 3F was URed. Spins and spirals are best of the field, of course.

I'm happy with the podium, especially with Alissa winning over CaroK. CaroK skated well today, but a 4 triple winning an event with so many strong programs is not exactly what I want to see happening, so thank goodness for that. Aside from Akiko's not-very-convincing drop in PCS scores, the event was well-judged. Yep!

Protocols: Short Program Like a Star @ heaven Free Skate

...and the wait for Nats and Mao begins. Unconscious

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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:25 am

ddmm wrote:
Congrats to Alyssa Czisny.

But am I the only one...it's so boring....

I miss our dear Mao Sad

No, you're not the only one. No one is impressing me much on the lady's senior level. The JGPF was far more interesting! Some of them are so good that I'm a bit afraid for Mao. silent But that's why she's working so hard now right?
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:31 am

I am not only happy for Alissa and Caro, but also because this competition proves that Japan needs Mao, if Japan wants the gold medal. Just think that a 4 triple performance by Carolina was enough to keep all the Japanese ladies behind her. I really like Kanako, Akiko and Miki, but if everyone brings their A game at worlds, the gold is beyond their reach. Only Mao is capable to compete for gold when everyone is at their best.
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:49 am

aoi88 wrote:
ddmm wrote:
Congrats to Alyssa Czisny.

But am I the only one...it's so boring....

I miss our dear Mao Sad

No, you're not the only one. No one is impressing me much on the lady's senior level. The JGPF was far more interesting! Some of them are so good that I'm a bit afraid for Mao. silent But that's why she's working so hard now right?

Yes, the juniors are far more interesting to watch now.
And I agree that the results prove that Japan needs Mao. I don't think Miki, Akiko (although I like her skating very much and I think she deserves higher scores) can necessarily be on the podium even if they skate clean. But Mao can as long as she skates clean.
If JFS is not sending Mao, then KIM is winning for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:58 am

Lady_in_black wrote:
I am not only happy for Alissa and Caro, but also because this competition proves that Japan needs Mao, if Japan wants the gold medal. Just think that a 4 triple performance by Carolina was enough to keep all the Japanese ladies behind her. I really like Kanako, Akiko and Miki, but if everyone brings their A game at worlds, the gold is beyond their reach. Only Mao is capable to compete for gold when everyone is at their best.
That is what I said earlier too. Only Mao cansuccesfully compete against Yuna and other girls at their best. However only Mao in a top form can do that. There are three months between Japanese Nationals and World Championships (and for our hard working Mao that is a lot of time Razz ). In my opinion, JSP should do their homework, oversee Mao's training and estimate whether Mao will be in a top form in March. If it is a possibility I say send her - that is your only chance. At least that's what I would do if I had any deciding power. Sweatdrop
But as we already know, all will depend on the Nationals' results. I guess now that Kanako placed the highest of the Japanese ladies at GPF, the whole fight for the final spot at Worlds will be between Mao and Akiko?
I just hope Mao will be ready by then to stand on the podium...
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:05 am

Last night I was thinking at a scenario: Mao placing 4th at nationals, she is out of the world team and she is sent to 4 continents, where she crushes the field with a personal best. Can you imagine the media reaction, fans, and everything?
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:11 am

ddmm wrote:
I don't think Miki, Akiko (although I like her skating very much and I think she deserves higher scores) can necessarily be on the podium even if they skate clean.

I disagree. Miki was about 11 points off the podium after the SP, so she had a lot of catching up to do. But she skated a clean LP and was almost on the podium.

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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:49 am

MikiAndoFan#1 wrote:
ddmm wrote:
I don't think Miki, Akiko (although I like her skating very much and I think she deserves higher scores) can necessarily be on the podium even if they skate clean.

I disagree. Miki was about 11 points off the podium after the SP, so she had a lot of catching up to do. But she skated a clean LP and was almost on the podium.
Agreed. Miki is constantly underestimated. cyclops

Are we watching the same event, or did people suddenly forget she had the highest free skate score here and had to overcome a massive SP deficit? No other lady but Miki clocked in and over the 120-mark for the free skate this season, and she has already accomplished this twice. And well, if we went by the "ifs" regarding everyone at their best, Akiko and Kanako are more than capable of surpassing that benchmark as well due to their seven-triple layout - it's not just Alissa and CaroK. Mirai is another skater with high scoring potential. It has less to do with "who" IMO but "what" the top skaters can pull off in that particular competition.

The only exception to this is Mao who has a massive SP advantage in the short (*if* she can land the 3A in the SP), and she may not need it even then. The scoring trend this season have more or less shown us that a pop is by far the most score-damaging mistake a skater can make, followed by not maximizing spins and steps. Mao will still be competitive if she can get 5 triples + 2As down and get the levels for her other elements.

(same goes for Yu-Na - I still have my doubts about whether she'll actually return to compete at Worlds, but with this kind of scoring trend she can easily be competitive even without a 3Lz-3T or a 3F-3T)

Lady_in_black wrote:
Last night I was thinking at a scenario: Mao placing 4th at nationals, she is out of the world team and she is sent to 4 continents, where she crushes the field with a personal best. Can you imagine the media reaction, fans, and everything?
I'd rather not see this happen. Drama!

Even if it did, the Worlds team the JSF will decide by the end of Nats are final unless someone gets injured or withdraws due to extraordinary circumstances.
The JSF might consider her for next year's WTT though.

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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:44 am

MikiAndoFan#1 wrote:
ddmm wrote:
I don't think Miki, Akiko (although I like her skating very much and I think she deserves higher scores) can necessarily be on the podium even if they skate clean.

I disagree. Miki was about 11 points off the podium after the SP, so she had a lot of catching up to do. But she skated a clean LP and was almost on the podium.

Sorry if my explanation was not good. Worship I mean that both Miki and Akiko are often underscored thus are not on the podium when they should have been.
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:47 am

For all who are interested, I found this site where the figure skating videos are mostly with the Universal Sports commentary (and for me it's really more interesting to hear that commentary than a Russian or Japanese where I don't understand a word Smile )
Here for example is Kanako's SP:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5633179/kanako_impresses_at_figure_skating_finals_from_universal_sport/

I think Mao will come back at the Nationals (I mean... she's our Comebackqueen Mushy Love ) and I believe in her and her team to make the right decisions. And even if she will land off the podium, she wouldn't give up, she would try hard to give her best at 4CC and expresses everyone by pulling herself together and showing everyone what she can in the next season. But she could demonstrate that also in two weeks, I saw her practice at TEB and she was fabulous and because of that 40 minutes I'm relatively sure she will make it... Yep!
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:16 am

Team Sato's banner Razz

http://uproda.2ch-library.com/321979OoO/lib321979.jpg


Sorry for Dai. He looked as if he's suffering pain from the collision, although he says nothing about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:40 am

this GPF ladies competition was so boring. And I agree with you guys, Japan really NEEDS Mao. Without Mao, Yuna can skate with tight eyes and still win by 50 points. Japan can stay without any medal at all at home Worlds. It's so easy then someone think, oh we have three good skaters who are in the good shape, but they are nowhere near Mao's level when she's on. Sorry people, but it's true. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:20 am

Josling, thanks for the link. Yes Mao is a COMEBACKQUEEN !

And Linglang, I love that banner. I want one !!!! the chinese Mao forum has really nice photos.

And Polosatik, did you listen to the russian commentary for ladies ? is it TAT speaking ? if so, what does she says about Kanako's FP ? I hear 'mao asada....' ..
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:38 am

ddmm wrote:
aoi88 wrote:
ddmm wrote:
Congrats to Alyssa Czisny.

But am I the only one...it's so boring....

I miss our dear Mao Sad

No, you're not the only one. No one is impressing me much on the lady's senior level. The JGPF was far more interesting! Some of them are so good that I'm a bit afraid for Mao. silent But that's why she's working so hard now right?

Yes, the juniors are far more interesting to watch now.
And I agree that the results prove that Japan needs Mao. I don't think Miki, Akiko (although I like her skating very much and I think she deserves higher scores) can necessarily be on the podium even if they skate clean. But Mao can as long as she skates clean.
If JFS is not sending Mao, then KIM is winning for sure.

I have to agree... Crying or Very sad

I have hated Czisny's jumps all along, but she must've worked hard on them, they've very much improved this season. And of course, her spins are fab. I've come to like her a great deal this season, she's got lots of guts fixing her jumps at her age, and I am very happy for her winning GPF. Kostner managed a 3-3 finally in SP, and she does have a sense of grace afterall, I can be happy for her making 2nd place too.

Still, it's probabaly just a matter of preferance, but I don't like any of their pros for this season that much. I'm not saying I don't like lyrical soft pros. I do like such pros as much as I like Kanako's speedy energetic pros and Akiko's dramatic passionate pros.

But honestly...after seeing Mao skate all these years, plus watching her skate 'Ballade' over and over again this season, Czisny and Kostner simply aren't soft, flexible, light, smooth nor elegant enough for me. Mao has spoiled me completely. I have trouble appreciating other skaters performing lyrical soft pros, eversince she appeared. As someone once said, in Mao's case it's as if you can't even hear her shaving the ice. But when I see some other skater after her, even if I can't actually hear it, I can feel their blades shaving the ice roughly, no matter how gracefully they're skating. As graceful as Kostner and Czisny had been tonight, their arm movements still look awkward to me. I can't help longing for Mao's level of beautiful moves when skaters choose music like they had for their FPs this season. I know Kostner and Czisny skate well, plus they both are pretty to watch, but after Mao, even they aren't enough to satisfy me. But even if Mao didn't exist, I still didn't like Czisny and Kostner's music choices.

So if not Mao, I very much prefer a powerful Kanako, a passionate Akiko or a gorgeous Miki rather than them. I can stand Czisny winning just for her brilliant spins, but I think Kanako should've been in 2nd, and Akiko in 3rd if only she had a 3-3 in her SP. I was relieved Miki was awarded high scores for her FP, but it made me more sad that she made mistakes in her SP. I think Kanako and Akiko deserved higher PCS.

As for the guys, I guess Chan winning couldn't have been avoided this time. And although I still think his PCS were too high again, with all the other guys making mistakes, and Chan being the only one with dramatic music in a theatrical sense; the kind of music which makes the performance seem okay in the end even if there are some mistakes, not to mention Lori's choreo...I can see why the judges tend to keep on giving him such high PCS. I guess it may be a matter of preferance again, but I like skaters who are good at dancing as much as skating. Chan is clearly not one of them. So him getting high TES is fine, but there's something missing in him as a performer, hence I'm still against his high PCS. If Chan deserves those PCS in any way, it's all because of Lori not him.

Very disappointing results for me... Depressed Crying
I missed Jeremy and Joubert. I want my Mao back. I even miss Yuna...

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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:12 am

ddmm wrote:
Josling, thanks for the link. Yes Mao is a COMEBACKQUEEN !

And Linglang, I love that banner. I want one !!!! the chinese Mao forum has really nice photos.

And Polosatik, did you listen to the russian commentary for ladies ? is it TAT speaking ? if so, what does she says about Kanako's FP ? I hear 'mao asada....' ..
Yes Tat was commenting all day, but I didn't have a chance to watch Kanako's free from NTV,does anyone have a link? Yesterday I loved TAT's commentary , she spoke up almost my thoughts about Kanako. Yes powerful,good 3-3, but ugly spins, childish skating. Btw it was so funny when TAT said"great 3t-3t combo, awesome!" When "oh, that spin was very ugly" lol! And she kept complimenting Machiko, she said she adores her. Many Hearts And of course she mentioned that Machiko was Mao's first coach. Love
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:30 am

I'm trying to figure out why I can't warm up to Kanako's skating. She has charm, great personality, consistency. Her technique on some jumps needs work but so does a lot of other ladies, so that's not a reason for not liking her skating. I guess it comes down to style. Kanako has a lot of energy but she doesn't skate smoothly or gracefully. I always feel she's a bit rushed through her programs. And I agree some of her positions and lines are not pretty. And I don't think this is entirely due to her young age. Recently, I've rewatched Mao's programs at 14 and I found even though the programs lacked the maturity of later years, her skating was graceful and smooth. I think Kanako shares this problem with Akiko, who is another skater who has charisma but I find myself not particularly into her skating as a whole.

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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:39 am

aoi88 wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why I can't warm up to Kanako's skating. She has charm, great personality, consistency. Her technique on some jumps needs work but so does a lot of other ladies, so that's not a reason for not liking her skating. I guess it comes down to style. Kanako has a lot of energy but she doesn't skate smoothly or gracefully. I always feel she's a bit rushed through her programs. And I agree some of her positions and lines are not pretty. And I don't think this is entirely due to her young age. Recently, I've rewatched Mao's programs at 14 and I found even though the programs lacked the maturity of later years, her skating was graceful and smooth. I think Kanako shares this problem with Akiko, who is another skater who has charisma but I find myself not particularly into her skating as a whole.

Tat said"there is no elegance here" about Kanako. Yep! I agree with you, she has nice flexibility but no elegance sadly.
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:00 am

Argh! How come Akiko lost nearly 3 points in PCS compared to her previous event?! And here, she had less mistakes too! In Russia, she got over 60 and here 57? While Miki's PCS are slowly climbing up from performance to performance (and rightfully so), Akiko's just seem totally random! It's like the judges have no idea what they're doing. And it's not even about keeping her behind Kanako (they did that in the men's events last season... Japan 1,2,3... okay more PCS to Dai, a little less for Nobu and poor Taka-chan got stuck with what was left) since they gave her slightly more.

Sorry I just don't get it. Akiko is definitely not an underdog or unknown to the judges anymore. She's Japan reigning silver medalist, a fairly consistent, fast skater with nice skating skills, good choreo and gorgeous IN on the ice. Everyone knows it by now. So why is she still bumped around by the judges?

I was going to say there were no other skaters competing right now whose PCS were so inexplicably all over the place, but I just noticed that the judges dropped Taka-chan by 4 points since TEB for on mistake... Weird again...
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:14 am

If some of you guys are interested what TAT said about Kanako during her Free skate, here are some summaries.


Like a Star @ heaven Kanako gains speed very well
Like a Star @ heaven Kanako jumps like Mao do, TAT said their jumps looks very similar( because of the same coach)
Like a Star @ heaven TAT liked the beginning of the footwork,but in the middle part she found her technique not good, but good twizzles and good impression overall

Like a Star @ heaven transitions are pretty simple but performs with good speed and fire.
Like a Star @ heaven Tat talked about Machiko's illness Sad
Like a Star @ heaven lutz is absolutely the same as Mao's
Exclamation Tat said that fixing the lutz is very hard thing to do, when you're trying to do it you're destroying the whole jump. ( I guess this is important, because there she talked about Mao's situation)

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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:28 pm

I completely agree with Pochi about how Mao has spoiled us with her beautiful lines, use of arms, ethereal quality, etc in lyrical programs. For me, the ONLY skater (junior or senior) that even came close was Zijun Li, who I think had great lines and was graceful in a very natural way. I thought Adelina also was a lovely skater, but to me, there was something a bit labored about her skating, still.

aoi88, I feel the same about Kanako. I'm not sure why, especially since I love Mirai, who also has a similar sort of charm and joy on the ice. I think it comes down to the fact that Mirai also has an graceful quality - you can see it when her music goes into its more lyrical, softer sections - in the use of her arms, the stretch of her back, etc. So I guess I love that Mirai is a combination? I'm not saying Kanako isn't elegant at all, just that maybe Mirai is just further developed artistically at this point. And Kanako has time to develop, too..one of my thoughts while watching her SP was that it'll be really interesting to see her tackle different programs in the future.

About P-Chan's win...oh, goodness. I need to watch his program before I comment on it, but a 9 in interpretation!? This better be the greatest, most artistic program I've ever seen in my life.
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 pm

bellarina wrote:
I completely agree with Pochi about how Mao has spoiled us with her beautiful lines, use of arms, ethereal quality, etc in lyrical programs. For me, the ONLY skater (junior or senior) that even came close was Zijun Li, who I think had great lines and was graceful in a very natural way.

Yea, I know. That's why she's become one of my personal favs. Btw guys, I posted some photos of Zijun with Mao and Mai at AOI in the other skaters thread. She's so cute.
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:30 pm

aoi88 wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why I can't warm up to Kanako's skating. She has charm, great personality, consistency. Her technique on some jumps needs work but so does a lot of other ladies, so that's not a reason for not liking her skating. I guess it comes down to style. Kanako has a lot of energy but she doesn't skate smoothly or gracefully. I always feel she's a bit rushed through her programs. And I agree some of her positions and lines are not pretty. And I don't think this is entirely due to her young age. Recently, I've rewatched Mao's programs at 14 and I found even though the programs lacked the maturity of later years, her skating was graceful and smooth. I think Kanako shares this problem with Akiko, who is another skater who has charisma but I find myself not particularly into her skating as a whole.


Escape Escape Well, the same with me sorry to say. I think she just comes out forced to me, if that makes sense. VERY FORCED.
I also haaaaaaaaaaaaate her ugly toe picks, somebody plz say that agree with me on this point, bc her toe pics bother me THAT much!
Panic! Panic!

I always feel sad when people underestimate Miki, I like her very much. I think that girl is awesome and she does jump like Woah, if she skated a clean SP she would have easily won Wub Wub

Shame for Kanako getting higher PCS than AKiko. scratch scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:15 pm

polosatik wrote:
If some of you guys are interested what TAT said about Kanako during her Free skate, here are some summaries.


Like a Star @ heaven Kanako gains speed very well
Like a Star @ heaven Kanako jumps like Mao do, TAT said their jumps looks very similar( because of the same coach)
Like a Star @ heaven TAT liked the beginning of the footwork,but in the middle part she found her technique not good, but good twizzles and good impression overall

Like a Star @ heaven transitions are pretty simple but performs with good speed and fire.
Like a Star @ heaven Tat talked about Machiko's illness Sad
Like a Star @ heaven lutz is absolutely the same as Mao's
Exclamation Tat said that fixing the lutz is very hard thing to do, when you're trying to do it you're destroying the whole jump. ( I guess this is important, because there she talked about Mao's situation)


What happened to machiko??. Depressed Crying
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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:48 pm

Sadly, I do agree with all of you that Kanako does not have elegance. But she's a totally different type of skater compared to Mao, so I don't have much trouble appreciating her the way she is. What I like about Kanako isn't really her jumps or her speed, but her natural talent in dancing (okay, not balletic!), and the way she uses her whole body to express herself. The one thing Kanako is better at than Mao at her age, is entertaining and showing off. This is different from being artistic or aesthetically beautiful, but she does bring a smile to my face. Kanako's skating isn't as sensitive as Mao, but she's not sloppy either like Flatt and Leonova. She should work on her lines and positions more, but as long as she can keep up her stamina, I don't necessarily think she needs elegance that much. I personally would prefer her to stick to fast dramatic music, keep away from lyrical classics, and complete her own world of power skating. I'd like to see her do pros like Sasha's 'Dark Eyes' and Yuna's 'Dance Macabre' in the future. I guess she'll have to polish her elegance a bit more in order to do so, but she won't need Mao's level of elegance to perform them, which is probabaly impossible for her to achieve anyway. I can understand alot of you guys being bothered by Kanako's 'forced' skating though. We're all Mao fans, of course it should bother us. But I prefer Kanako to stay the way she is, so I can go on laughing at the media who call her the next or second Mao. There will never be a second Mao. Zijun reminds me of the little fairy like Mao too, but even she'll gain and perfect something which she only has in the near future, and become the first Zijun not the second Mao. I guess the same can be said for all top level skaters. Mao didn't turn out to be Midori, Yuna didn't turn out to be Kwan, and Kanako certainly will never turn out to be Mao, however much they all admire their senior idols. And that's exactly what makes them special IMO. I think what attracts others and me to Kanako, is that she already has her own style although she's very young. It's not completed yet, and needs to be improved much more as you all say. But she is unique compared to others in her generation. Haruka and Risa are much more elegant, mature and graceful than Kanako, but to me they seem more like imitating their senior idols at this point. Although of course that's probabaly what they should be doing at their age, but nevertheless, their elegance and grace hasn't become totally their own yet. That's one of the reasons I much more prefer Liza and Zijun than Risa. Liza and Zijun are also far from completing their own styles, but there is something about them which is much more unique compared to Risa. Adelina is great too, but I still can't image what kind of a skater she will become, except one having great skills.

Anyway, I hope you'd all be a bit more easy and patient with Kanako. Sweatdrop
She's still very young, and if you compare any skater to Mao at her age, none of them will be satisfying. Mao is and had been ultra special from the start. But I'm not in much of a position to say this, since I can't help comparing other skaters with Mao either. I used to be able to appreciate most skaters for their unique differences, but eversince Mao...I've started to become so strict with female skaters. Bad habit! No wonder GP and GPF was pretty boring. It's my own fault. Those who aren't addicted to Mao as much as me must've been able to enjoy the series more. No

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PostSubject: Re: Gran Prix Final 2010 - 9-12 beijing   

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